Welcome to the huberman Lab podcast where we discuss science and science based tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and Ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is David Goggins David Goggins is a retired Navy SEAL who served in Iraq and Afghanistan. He's also a highly accomplished ultramarathon runner for those of you that don't know ultramarathons are distances longer than
Six miles and in David's case often longer than 200 miles for his achievements in athletics. He has been inducted into the International Sports Hall of Fame. He also held a Guinness world record for the most pull-ups completed in 24 hours. I should mention that Not only was David a decorated Navy SEAL, but he also graduated from Army Ranger school. David is also a highly successful writer having authored two books. The first entitled can't hurt me and the second entitled never finished both of which are best sellers.
And David's book's cover many topics including his autobiographical description of what can only be described as an incredibly challenging child and young adulthood. His home was abusive. His school environment was abusive. He essentially had no positive resources directed his way and in his twenties, he found himself to be obese that is more than 300 pounds working a job. He despised for minimal pay and it was at that point that David began an inner dialogue.
That forced him to explore the demons born out of his childhood. But also the position that he found himself in as a young man and then began the journey to navigate that dialogue and transform himself into the Navy SEAL the ultramarathon runner the best-selling author and the extraordinarily positive and influential man that he is today. Some of you may know David has done various public lectures. He's a familiar face online because there are so many clips of him on YouTube and he has done podcast.
Before however, I'm certain that. You'll find today's discussion to be very different than previous podcasts that David has been featured on the reason is that of course, we get into his accomplishments. We talked about the mindset that allowed him to achieve those things. But today David really lets us under the hood. He lets us into the form of inner dialogue that he has to embrace indeed that he has to Grapple with on a daily basis. Sometimes multiple times throughout the day and night in order to impose.
The sort of self discipline that he is so well known for we also get into some of the scientific mechanisms underlying willpower and we talk about David's current Endeavors that include for instance his own exploration of science and medicine for which he has become an intense scholar and practitioner. I should mention that multiple times throughout today's discussion. You will hear curse words now David and I both acknowledge that cursing isn't for everybody and that cursing itself is different than
Cursing at somebody nonetheless. We do realize that many people parents perhaps especially might not want to hear cursing. If you don't want to hear cursing. Well, then this podcast episode is probably not for you. However, if you are comfortable with cursing or if you can tolerate it, I assure you today's discussion is highly worthwhile before we begin I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford it is however part of my desire
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welcome my man.
An do the see you get
man great to see you. It was late 2016 early 2017. I believe when you were in my lab at Stanford. Yes, sir. We did a little work later that that day down in San Jose and gosh see you everywhere, but it's not enough so great to have
you here. Thanks for having me on bro. Yeah,
you embody discipline and doing hard things right? I think she just start right off with. Yep. Let's go there the Bold truth, but right before we went hot.
six, right
We were talking about learning. Right right. Now, you're spending some time learning and doing things that I think most people probably don't typically associate David Goggins with right. Why don't you tell us about
that? Well, most people just look at me as the guy that runs and yells as he's running and that's well. I do that, you know to motivate people but people don't understand that my day is broken up into segments. I work out eat I sleep I spend most of my time studying so
I'm in the medical world. I'm no paramedic in Canada. But I spent a lot of my time trying to Nuke every single thing about it because I'm not trying to just be a paramedic learn about veins and arteries and how the heart pumps and stuff like that. I'm trying to learn to the point where I can save someone's life. And even though paramedics are doing that all over the world. I'm trying to be that paramedic that can really dissect exactly what's going on and figure out you know, what medication goes we're just
trying to you know this trying to learn, you know, the algorithm of what's going on man. So I spend a lot of time with
it. I love the word algorithm because when I teach biology or try and learn anything that's related to biology and especially the human body, right? I need to know the nouns. Yep, but it's the verbs that matter and that's really what you're talking about. Like like just saying that that sits there that brain part there doesn't tell you how it all works together. So what is your process for studying look like if we dropped a camera?
Room but a microphone into that into your inner dialogue right gosh wouldn't when we all love that but we dropped a microphone into your inner dialogue. Are you waking up looking at the books and going? Yeah, fresh day. Let's learn or is some of the same resistance that you've talked about coming up around physical. Yep work. Is that coming up from time to time? You know
what I was nervous at first. I'ma keep the mother. I'ma keep it real he's real so I'm not a real smart guy.
And what I mean by that is I was born
ADD ADHD
all my brain cannot retain information. I'm not some genetic frequent comes to running when it comes to lifting weights. I'm I am absolutely the bottom of the barrel and people will never believe me and they can just you know, whatever believe what you want to believe. So he asked me this question about what the study and look like for me. I have to go over the same page over and over.
And over and over again while Jennifer can look at that page while she's you know, Chrissy me, she'll learn it right then as she's judging on anything about it. She will quiz herself or Chris me and learn it as she's Christian me. It's the most frustrating thing in the world how my brain works. So what I do, what I do is I literally sit there with a pen and paper and I have my books and I go through have to write everything down every single day.
I was studied the same page until it's photographic memory from writing the same thing down. And then from there, I'll go back through and relearned again. So I'll learn the bulk of it, but then I'll go through and learn the small things within that so if it's a medication, I'll learn with the medication does our first I learned how to even say the medication.
Because these medications aren't like, you know, like albuterol know it's very big were so I'll go through learn how to say the name and I'll go through learn with the doses and I'll go through and this is like every single day. It's not like, oh I got it. Let's just go through. No nothing is I got it every single thing. That's so I can't wait to get in this conversation because everything I do in life. It sucks.
Everything I do in life is sucks. That's why when I was 300 pounds and 24 years old. It went like has some big epiphany.
Of let's just go be a Navy SEAL next lose some weight. No, I knew my entire life was going to be a struggle which is why I just ignored it. And I said, I'm not even trying to jump off into this shit and learn how to read how to write how to memorize how to become something. I am not but through that process something happened to me and I realize that this is why I feel sorry for No One
this podcast they're going to really not like me because people are going to think that I am may be lying or may be fibbin or exaggerating. No, I am literally I was the lowest form on Earth. No Talent no ability to learn and I literally know what it is to be rock bottom and to build that up so that question about learning. It's a pain in my ass and I don't have to do it. So think about
49ers on a multi-millionaire
I don't have to do anything. So I thought about when I was growing up as man.
I can't wait to one day get to the point where I no longer have to do this stuff. But what happens I got older it became a way of living. So how I do every day is how I do every day. It's a it's a discipline is to regiment it's a it's a it was a choice I made and the choice I made was what are you willing to sacrifice? And what are you willing to give up to find every bit of who you are as a human being and I was willing to give everything to do that.
So studying is no
joke. I love that you're studying. I recall a few years ago. I heard some interviewer podcast with you and you just threw out like, I don't know what I'll do next. Maybe I'll be a scientist. Right? And I went yeah, I was like because I knew because I know you a bit and I see your work out there, but we'd met before that. If you decided that you were going to do it right and learning medicine, which is what you're doing right learning human physiology is so detailed.
Barry and people out there after understand when you look at a textbook and you see the veins in the capillaries different colors in the hit when the body is open, they're not different colors, right? You know, you're not so I mean some things are a different color contrast, but it's not like it's all labeled when you pop it open actly. And so so the process of writing things down by hand is important for you. Do you so you go back and read those notes. Do you think about that stuff on your runs to or you segmenting your day? Like when you're done studying are you heading out for a run? And
Thinking about other things or are you still rehearsing the material in your head?
So when I write it down I write it down and I'm able to I'm actually looking down at this table right now because I'm back to right and so I'm actually there right now as I'm speaking to you. I write it down in a way that I'm memorizing page 69
So I'm writing it down. So then writing it down in that page sync together in my brain. So I'm looking at the book in my brain right now. So like that's just how it works for me and I have to do it over and over again. So that page is stuck in my mind. So I'm literally flipping through pages as I'm taking these tests. I'm taking these National test to become a paramedic or become a advanced EMT or whatever. I'm literally as I'm taking that test.
I'm going through and I'm like
Flipping Pages him ahead of that pace was and how I do that is just from how I how I write it and how it's on the page when I run I can't recall any of it. Hmm. I cannot I cannot bring any of that because I'm running how my mind is wired. Now is that everything I do is what I do because the focus it takes for me to like right now. I'm running. I'm not like a great Runner. I'm not like injury-free so
First 20 minutes of the run. I'm limping. I'm literally limping because I've had several knee surgeries and my body was twisted and so now it's untwisting so people looking on looks like he's limping limping when you run Siam, let me when I run. My body's jacked up. So I'm focusing on how to get the best out of a broken body. So everything I do is a total focus on what I'm doing at that at that point in my life.
So it seems like you've really
Rained away or somehow gotten away from the add that you mentioned because what you described as a deep trench like a v-shaped ranch. Imagine like there's a ball bearing inside and it can only go forward in that trench right? We're back and it goes forward. It's not like sliding around at the like concave at the bottom route to write it like attention. So it's like you've trained that up. Is there a similar feeling when you're in the full focus of running versus full focus of studying. Is it kind of feel like oh, yeah. That's the same.
Roof, but different thing or is it just completely different world.
It's a completely different world. Like it's just bought them for me is suffering but suffering whole different way like when I was going through school and then forget I think I was in third grade and back then, you know ADD ADHD wasn't like, you know, here's his medicine her this thing. They want to put you in a special school. So for me, I was so far behind in learning.
That their big thing was let's just put him in a special school because he'll never learn and through that process of like, I don't want to be in a special school. I don't want to be treated any differently it really like I never took medication. I've never taken medication for this. That's all right. Now you see me looking right in your eyes. What the hell is is, you know, it's Truman saying right now and that's why I don't feel bad for people who have ADHD who have learning disabilities.
And some are impossible because you just can't but a lot of them you can and but people don't want to go through the process of focus of teaching yourself how to truly Focus. This is where my message gets lost it gets lost because I may say, you know, em, F or F Well I may because that's the passion that comes out of me because that's it takes everything for me to learn a sentence.
So when I speak about David Goggins, I can't speak about David goggles in a way. That's just calm and cool because when I wake up, I know their Journey that takes for me to find my greatness and it's hard every nothing is easy. Nothing just like oh I wake up and I just do this or do that or it just know I watched people everyday go through life and it's so easy for me to be where I'm at today. It takes every bit of me. So when I speak about it,
It has a get going here. You'll start seeing me the temple will rise the passion will come out because I'm back there. I'm doing what I do every day to become a human being and so it nothing is easy like running is running. It sucks. But you have a choice to make do you want to sit down and go back to that guy you once were no so this is what it takes this what it takes that misunderstanding of people and they'll never get it because they've never David Goggins
So that is what it takes for me to do what I do it may take you something differently. So for me everything has to be in the study and everything has to be into this. Everything has to be in everywhere. I am has to be there me Focus where I am. That's why you're my second pockets are done. Just Rogan since the book came out. I don't have time for that shit because if I want to be great, I'm not trying to maximize money or maximize people knowing me. I do these things because maybe someone out there will understand me and get it.
It's a I can grow from this guy and others just won't
sounds like friction is something you're very familiar with. I just this word just as I feel like his like yes cast above us right now in boldface highlighted underlined letters. He's Russian is great action. Yes, like you're you're up in the morning and I imagine David Goggins going to the coffee maker stretching out. Good morning sunshine and you're telling me from eyelids open there's friction. Yes,
and that is the thing that people don't they don't fucking
Get the biggest misunderstanding about David guys of all time. It's like whether you believe in God or not, I do.
He put this lab rat, which is me on this planet. It's a let me fucking see with a beat-up abused kid who has who can barely learn barely learn who has a twisted body messed up messed up genetics Sickle Cell this and that. Let me give him everything that pretty much disqualifies you from the military but back then it wasn't estrus and let's put him in this and see what
Comes out of it. So to do that friction. You don't wake up in the morning time you go to the coffee maker my fact sometimes I even sleep what it requires is when I'm at 2:00 in the it's 2:00 in the morning in my brain is thinking about a fucking drug and I got to get up and look in my book to see if that drug is how I remember it and this is every day of my fucking life. That's why I'm not trained a fighter or I trained some like you have no fucking idea how
You really are because you are using such minimal minimal of what you have and if people can learn to focus this is what's possible while it may not be pretty like people want to do a documentary on me. I don't know.
I want to do a documentary on me because I will have normal everyday people picking me apart. His life is miserable who wants to live like that. He looked it's crazy how he sounds like he's sick. He's psychotic.
The most frustrating thing in the world for me is when normal people judge a man like myself on what it really takes to extract greatness from nothing. It takes every bit of who you are if you choose that route if you don't marry Christmas do what you got to do, but yeah all these things for me like like I told you I'm gonna keep it real. I am not coming here to talk about
You know perform without purpose because I go through when I write these books I go through a try dumbed-down David goddess.
How can I give normal people and I'm normal but I found something that most don't want to find it. How can I speak to people and give them something from this crazy psychotic brain that I've developed. How can I give him that so I sit down with Jennifer for years and write down performed out purpose callous your mind armor your mind the cookie jar the accountability mirror shit that people can fucking using their lives. No.
No, I'm glad it helps you but their barbaric life did I live that you have to live there almost Obsession that she must have to be great. You can't put that shit in the fucking book grow. You can't put in a book. Can you can't write about it has to be experienced has to be experienced and you can't even after you experience it.
To write it in the book. It would seem like he should be locked up
this tribute to gory.
It's to gore doesn't make sense for a guy that everything every second the day. He is trying to extract more from something.
He's constantly think he's constantly constantly discipline never going off the path whatever. It's injured on them. He figures away. It's a conquerors mindset and very few people if any
can really understand what that is. Like, I'm almost 50 and I've been this way for almost 30 years like we do for fun. You would never these questions. I don't I don't get him. I don't understand them. I don't so yeah, I get
asked that sometimes where you for find started listing off all the stuff like podcasting reading very working out. Yeah, but so some of that resonates, but I think what's so truly unusual about what you're describing.
Your process is that you know from go it's hard. Yep. And I have to ask was being 300 pounds having a scent. I'm using the words you've described do it. You said it before you had a tendency at one point in your life early on tell lies try and get people's approval ass off crazy haircuts attention-seeking and and yet all of that triggered something that now is
His extraordinary right? Do you think those hardships were necessary to flip the switch?
I don't know if there are necessary but it was something that made me feel.
I feel good.
It was easy.
The brain that I was given as a child, it was easy to go home and think about what how do I want to be a freak today? How do I show up to school today be a freak. It didn't require me going home and open the book up saying it's going to take me all year to learn this fucking patient. So instead of learning that page. I learned how to become a character.
And maybe that character that I created that 300-pound insecure guy that used to fake fake it till I make it type of guy, you know, let me become your friend. Let me lie to you until you like me type of guy when you have any kind of
Any manhood Womanhood a human being a soul a spirit? Any I had no, I must have just this much pride because that's exactly where open the door for me because every day you were a character every day. You were a clown every day you open that Spanish book or that science broker English Brooke you like we looked at his like it looked like a foreign language and your scent. Where do I start?
Well, who do I start and obviously was necessary the more I talk about it was necessary because what happened is I became haunted.
By the mere fact that this is my existence and you got to live with that now look at it for a lot of years since I sat back and said, okay. All right. I know it this text and when you sit back
as fucked up as I was and I had a laundry list a table like this of what I have to do to become just a human being that can make ends meet that can make a thousand dollars a month just to get there was like, oh my god, dude, like Holly. I'm 16 17. I can't read. I can't write and I oh my God. I'm so behind the power curve in. My brain is about being depressed and my dad beat my mom.
Not home and kids are calling me nigger at school and I'm like, oh my God, man. What the fuck do I do?
And it went like someone came around and said, hey man, you can do this. This is all me. So people know where is this cold man come from? I'm not trying to be cold.
It's the reality of my life. It's the reality of a lot of people's lives. And so yeah that had to happen for me to be haunted to be haunted to pull out to extract the goddamn today that haunting is something that's still there today because no matter how much you improve no matter how much you change who you are. It's not permanent.
You just wake up and say oh my God, man. You're you're David God as you break records, you do this you do that. People don't know. How are you? How are you able to just be so hard to never turn the fucking thing off to the once it turns off.
I go right back to the David goggles that is and that's the guy that I'm constantly fighting every day and it's a choice and that choice makes you misunderstood. It makes you crazy. That's right. I hate fucking social media in 2013. People want me to write my book. I did it in 2018 took five years. And the reason why I didn't do it. I said the table and Jennifer was there just before I actually started working for me. I started dating or whatever.
And all these people are there and like made you got to go on social media and I was like fuck you man. I'm not that's it's poison. It's poison because I knew what I did to get where I am. And I only had these people these normal everyday people fat lazy is exactly who I was
judging me because I know it because I was once them all my hard work all my dedication to have some normal dude get his little brownies little ding dong ho ho Twinkie sit there with this coffee picking me apart. Oh, he must be unhappy. He's just you know how hard it is to put these shoes on every damn morning. I don't have you pick me apart. So yeah, there's there's a there's so much that goes
Into this that I was like fuck this I never want anything to do with it. So anyway, I'm not a
psychologist. Hmm, but knowing your story from what you've written. What do you said on social media and elsewhere podcast and fear now, especially right? It's amazing to me and frankly pulls at my heart strings a little bit. I realize that's not what you're trying to do, but that in the course of your childhood and in your young adulthood that know
One ever got between you and the world. I forget where I heard it that like if a kid has just one person that believes in them, right, you know, and I had my trials and tribulations, but I had great coaches great mentors. I attached to them. I found them if they didn't necessarily find me right but I'm realizing that your situation was no one's ever said. Hey, I'm going to stand here next to you or get in front of you put a shield up. And so it's almost like you've got these different.
Very it's all you but there's versions of yourself that like you knew social media. Like I don't know that I have the wherewithal in twenty thirteen fourteen fifteen sixteen Seventeen to get in front of myself while doing all this because I've already got so much going on in here. Right? Is that about right?
That is right, but I had developed a lot of anger and I still have it. It will never go away for the normal human beings this world.
Because when you put yourself in the sewer, like I was in and please it's Someone Save Me come out and announce it to the world. There's no one there's no one so when you know that and then I'm sitting at a table with all these smart people or tell me what to do and shit and guided me through my life. Now when I'm 40 fucking years old and you know 2,000 on a 40-something years old. I'm 49. I'm looking at them all and they're now trying to guy.
Me on which right on this poison. And so yeah, what you say is right, but for me, it was more of I know now. I don't need you to guide my future. I know what's good for me. And what's bad for me and for me it took every bit of focus. I couldn't I know social media. That's why people love to go on there because they want to show you the good side.
of life
I'm not teaching good side of life. So I had to figure out a way when I came on 2016 of teaching you what life really is for the majority of us as hell. And so while people love this show you the cars and the house and the vacations and shit all that's good. All that's happy. I'm going to show you the side that I know most you're going through and people hide very well. I don't want to
Anymore I hit for twenty four fucking years. That's why now. I told you we can talk about whatever you want because as human beings the one really the first thing we have to learn also studied real bad growing up. So if you hear me stutter every now and then it's because that was part of my life also, so it's funny human beings will show you the best side and they want to hide the worst side for me. I'm going to teach you how to be vulnerable.
That's the only way you fix yourself. You don't fix yourself by coming out here and be selling you some fucking books. That's why I don't have them. I forgot them.
I'm glad people got something from the book.
I want you to learn that the only way you grow is how to look at yourself and say okay like I did.
Table longer than this what the fuck I have to do to get somewhere.
There was nothing good on there. Nothing. Yeah, I love playing basketball. I left that out. That's something I love to do. I don't care about that. That's it make the fucking list because the list I had to live by was it was the very list of to get me at this table with you to talk to you too. The normal human beings, which I once was about how you can get somewhere and how it looks looks very ugly.
There's no fucking passion. No fucking motivation. There's no. Oh my God, man. I fucking this is no it's every day of your life. Just doing
No passion, no discipline no motivation yet all these words. I hate people. I hate that so many people fucking use these words now because it's watered it's someone sitting in the room by themselves and they figure themselves out and say God this is gonna fucking suck.
Where's passion when you're 300 pounds?
Where's the motivation when you can't read and write where is it? So, how did this happen? I just fucking did I just did I said maybe at the end of this journey, they'll be something there for me. If not I can read.
If not, I'm on 85 fucking pounds. There's another there's there's no magic potion. There's no I'll let me wake up and look at some shit know all those words are overused their bullshit. It's all bullshit. Just do your living. How do you want to live? How do you want to die? How do you want to fucking be remembered? That's that's it. That's it.
Period
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Who is ringing in my
head? Yep?
I think it's such a powerful word. Yep, because I was about to say seems like a huge part of your process. Maybe the entire process is it's all stick and no carrot, you know you talk about the carrot the positive thing and then there's the stick the thing you're trying to avoid feel like it's the way it's Landing for me. Mmm is
it's all stick and gas pedal. If it there's no carrot. You're not imagining. Oh when I'm a paramedic when the book is published and obviously you set those goals and you make those targets. Yep, but it's all stick hostak.
No carrot. Think about that.
I'm waking up right now studying. Like I have a test tomorrow. All right past the fucking test.
Think about that every day in my life. That's what I must do just to retain what I learned.
Four hours plus a day I go through and do that.
There's no stick or there's only a stick. There's never been a carrot which is why when I speak to people.
I have to figure out a way to resonate with them because all I want to say to them is.
Let me teach you the real life. How really is the reason why you're a loser and the reason why you're not fucking making it and the reason why you're trying to go to all these I go to all these fucking conventions speak all the fucking time. I look in the fucking audience and these people sign up sign up sign up fucking every year go to Convention thinking they're going to learn something fucking different know you're lazy, you know exactly what to do exactly what to do because even me in my state of I can't read or write.
I knew exactly what to do.
It just sucks doing it. It sucks to do it. It sucks to wake up every morning of your life and say God man. I'm I'm not smart. So guess what? I gotta do. I gotta I gotta study the same shit that I get one of the highest scores in the nation on and do it again do it again do it again. It's not just there. It's not just there for permanently for me. So yeah, it's all stick. It's all stick.
the only character you have is like maybe
maybe because we never take these tests that are real hard.
And back in my brain is like a good chance. You're not going to make it Goggins. They Saints you bro.
This ain't you you weren't born like this. This ain't you the real you bro study all you want you but the second that fucking computer comes on with her and 50 questions. It's ain't you man, and somehow comes back I passed passed again past again, but that rule me back here every fucking time. It's saying
Thank you, bro.
Thank you, and I have to outwork that voice when I'm taking that test and I get your course. I don't fucking know the answer like fuck man and then say so I told you man.
I ain't you you 300 pounds, but he said oh homie figure out how to do your hair. That's what you do how to come to school with the reverse baldness when you're 16, that's that's that's you so
There is no get-out-of-jail-free card.
This is why I say stay hard because when you weren't giving the gifts to only thing you can do in life is stay hard, and I know people cannot stand me. They can't stand this talk.
This is all you can do. There's no magic pill or a magic potion. All you can do is outwork the man that God created or woman in you and what that looks like is unfunny. That's why I said do not do a documentary on me.
Because people will not see the truth. They will see what they want to see is I don't want to live like that good good and you will live exactly the way you live now questioning who you are wondering what is possible wondering what you are capable of doing. That's how that looks or you can be me which in my happy.
I don't know never thought about it don't really care about it because all I really cared about was I looked in that fucking mirror. I saw a piece of shit happiness wasn't on the mirror at 16 around 200 pounds when I'm looking for happiness. No, I'm looking to look at myself in the mirror and said, all right, motherfucker did it again today?
You a bad boy, because that's just sucks.
How about couple minutes of that right got the carrot second lay down and go to bed care has gone because I'm waking up all through the night to check the work. I did that day.
That get this drug right there get this right I get that, right.
What I do. Oh my God, fuck. I'm really losing it stick sticks
haunting you hauntings following you around. Huh? So no picture Jordan on the wall. You're not listening to YouTube inspiration video those be all your voice. Anyway for you're not listening to your top 10 favorite songs just to get rolling and then lace the shoes hit the books your it's all in here on there.
I used to do that when I was fat.
Lucky me for know that that was my thing around 14 was my thing. And as I got older and older and older that started to go away and I started to create all these people that I used to watch Rocky was one Barnes Elias from Platoon Jack from A Few Good Men, you know, he's on the stand going crazy. I saw a lot of these characters that I looked.
That and I was like man, I ain't got none of that, but they were characters.
after a while
I live the life. So disciplined that everybody that I once looked you these fake characters, I built as a man and when I was younger, I had this image in my mind of what does it man look like to me.
And I got all these people who are badasses characters and in my mind, I became that and that's what kept me going a lot was I had this pipe dream of becoming a little bit of this and a little bit of that because when you have no parents raising you and you have no Role Models growing up you it's not daydreaming you start to create a reality that hmm.
Maybe I can be that.
and after becoming this guy
That is the biggest thing I can ever do in my life is I became that guy that I once looked at all these guys now look at myself. I got who the fuck can do that. I can't but what it takes is a discipline that no one can ever even this don't they don't understand it. They don't understand everybody has the ability to do it, but they just don't want you they want to keep asking questions and keep going to seminars.
And the greatness is right in you and that's why once again, I'll say it's a million times here. I do not feel sorry for you. I will not sugar coach what I'm going to say to you because all of you know, what I'm saying is the truth.
Everybody knows the truth. This is what it looks like and you know what to do, you know what to do. This will if you ain't got nothing, I hate to tell you what it looks like. It's ugly. It's not a documentary. It's not an HBO special you think you're watching the hey man, you guys gotta watch this know. It's like oh God. This looks like a train wreck is like a nightmare. This looks like this guy got no, so I looks like hard work looks horrible. It's not motivating. It's not moving at all.
It like Rocky Ralph 14 because knocked down and goes at this to Apollo Creed looks like a man being stuck in a fucking dungeon, and there's no fucking way out.
But you had the fucking key.
But you refuse to use it and that's not motivating about that.
So yes, no document on David Goggins
the real life. The really we got aliens is that is the documentary. It's all it's already being written.
You're it, right? Yeah, I'm going to share a little Neuroscience tidbit, but I think it's one that you'll appreciate most people don't know this but there's a brain structure called the anterior mid cingulate cortex as we point out before that's a noun. It's a name. It doesn't mean anything we could call it the Cookie Monster, right? But what's interesting about this brain area. Is there now a lot of data in humans?
That's a mouse study showing that when people do something they don't want to do like add three hours of exercise per day or per week or when people who are trying to die and lose weight resist eating something right when people do anything that they and this is the important part that they don't want to do right? It's not about adding more work. It's about adding more work that you don't want to do this brain area gets bigger. Yeah. Now here's what's especially interesting about this brand.
Area to me. And by the way, I'm only learning this recently because it's new data, but there's a lot of it the anterior mid cingulate cortex is smaller and obese
people. Mmm,
it gets bigger when they die. It's larger and
athletes.
It's especially large or grows larger in people that see themselves as Challenge and overcome some challenges, right?
And in people that live a very long
time
this area keeps its eyes in many ways scientists are starting to think of the enter mid cingulate cortex. Not just as one of the seats of willpower, right but perhaps actually the seat of the will to
live now we're talking
and when I learned about the anterior mid cingulate cortex, I was like almost out of my seat and I've been in the Neuroscience game since I was 20, they're the same age and I was
Pump because I've heard of the amygdala fear prefrontal cortex is planning an action. I could tell you every brain area and every I teach neuroanatomy to medical students, but when I started seeing the date on the anterior mid cingulate cortex, I was like, whoa, this is interesting. Yeah and all the data points to the fact that we can build this area up, but that as quickly as we build it up if we don't continue to invest in things that are hard for us that we don't want to do that.
That's the part that feels so goggin desk to me that we don't want to do like if you love the ice bath. Yeah. I love the I spend you go from one minute to 10 minutes. Guess what your anterior mid cingulate cortex did not grow none. But if you hate the cold water if you're afraid of drowning and you get into water and put your head under
Then your answer mids and survive. Then the interim it cingulate cortex gets bigger. But if you don't do it the next day or if you do it the next day and you enjoy it because they hey I did it yesterday. Woohoo! Happy me Merry Christmas Is Here Christmas. Guess what the answer amid? Cingulate cortex shrinks again? Yep to me. This is one of the most important discoveries that Neuroscience has ever made because it's that I don't want to do something but do it. Anyway. It's right that grows this
Mia and it's almost like I have a friend. He's been sober 30 years from alcohol and he always says, you know, the amazing thing about addiction is there's a cure the problem is it only works one day at a time. Yep. And so you have to renew it every day, right? So the answer MIT cingulate cortex to me when I learned about it to two things went off in my head. Whoa, this is super interesting and to I got to tell David Goggins about this and I waited until now to tell you because I felt like well for obvious reasons, I wanted to tell you and I want to tell you
here.
Well, I love that because that's how I've lived my entire life. I don't know anything about that, but people will make you have such a strong will.
It's something that you build like I never forget. I was on a podcast one time and it's dude goes you were blessed the strong mind.
like
the hell you talking about I was blessed with the strong mind you that's something that you have to develop.
You develop that over years decades of suffering and going back into the suffer. That's why a lot of people who graduate Navy SEAL training. They were no like in my I talk about very openly all the time.
A lot of guys don't go don't don't want to go back into that water. Don't want to go back into the hard stuff. Maybe not anything anything hard anything hard in life. Once you get through it. It's like you become a people w at how many people W. No want to go back to p.o.w. Camp none when something sucks so bad in life. This is on this there were talking about now.
Very few people want to go back. They're happy. They graduated.
I realized I'm the same way. I don't want to go back.
I have to go back. I must go back because that is exactly where all the knowledge of my life exists was back there in which exactly talking about. Well, I don't know anything about this, but how I grew a will was constantly doing these things to now it's just life.
I wake up while it still sucks. It's just life. You don't sit back and like oh my God, like I have days I don't want to do but I know I'm going to do it.
I know from years of just doing it so that that's that's beautiful. And this is why I came on here with you today. And I'm glad you're talking about this because human beings need to hear this then he stopped hearing these hacks.
On this and that there's no fucking hack bro. There's no fucking hack. Yeah, you met this and that and saunas and did all this shit that they yeah, it's great. There is no fucking life hack to grow that thing. How do you grow it do it and do it and do it and do it. That's the hack. The heck is the fucking suck and that's what I realized. That's why I realized life. That's why I wanted to come on here today. I don't know. Come on here and
No, fucking passion and purpose and how to get the fuck out of bed. And how does it hit a fucking alarm clock all this catchphrase bullshit because that wasn't how I lived. I would how I lived. I lived I woke up like every human being doesn't goes fuck man. I'm a fucking piece of shit today. How the hell is this going to work out for me? And you fight that and you fight that you don't overwrite it.
So override button it's the conversation in your fucking in your head. So how you do that? We don't have enough of these conversations about the real conversation that every human being is having and they have no idea how to get out of it, but they do
Is that shit right there man? Yeah, build your will how do you build your will exactly what you said man exactly what she said.
Well, I feel like knowing the name of something enter mid cingulate cortex doesn't fundamentally change us. But one thing I like about biology is that willpower. If somebody feels they don't have it feels like this thing that other people have but everybody unless they're brain-damaged like a hole right through their head.
As to anterior mid cingulate cortex one on each side of their brain. Everyone has one they have to so I feel like it's just a question of opening the portal and the portal would I again I'm sending to say ten times and forgive me as I think people go. Oh, I do hard things. I do sets to failure and then I do four straps. I love training with weights. I love doing sets to failure. I even like four straps, but guess what? I like four straps so I could I'll tell you they don't build my anterior.
Cingulate cortex, right because I like to do it right anything you like to do is knock and enhance this aspect of willpower and it seems so obvious once you hear it you kind of go. Oh, yeah, of course, but I think
You really close that Loop
for people when you share what you're sharing today and what you've shared elsewhere before as well when you're trying to explain the friction is the critical ingredient, right? And I think people think oh if it's effort. Well, then I'm getting better. That's part of it necessary but not sufficient as we say in science, but the
sock part
The Haunt being
haunted the stick.
They're really unpleasant terms very easily the most unpleasant terms we've
Used on this podcast very those are the those are the levers those are the gears. And without those this thing that you're talking about David Goggins as a verb, right? Yeah. I'd sometimes make the joke, but it's not a joke, right Doggins is a name and it's a verb people go. I'm going to Goggins that right, right, but that's I think again, I'm not a psychologist. I think that's what you're talking about the stick the friction being haunted.
And it's the sock part that grows this anterior mid cingulate cortex.
So now you know why there's so many people that failed that's world to figure out their purpose.
Their purpose in life. Where do I go? Because to grow that
now you may not look like me how my daily life looks don't look fun.
Don't look fun.
So it's a choice that people have to make in life. But what's so funny about it is even the richest of Rich who have everything they always ask me this question.
I feel like I'm missing something.
I don't feel like I'm missing shit.
I don't have what you all have but you're never in my life hear me tell you I'm missing something. Everybody is the missing this feeling.
I found it a long time ago. I found it right there in that willpower thing when you're nothing nothing and change yourself into something like me.
You call it happiness. Peace. Where the fuck you want to call it?
People are missing exactly what went on with David Goggins. Why don't you smile I do I do but I figure something out. That's why I am never you'll never hear me say I'm missing something. I found it years ago. You find it.
in the suck
you finding this suck and you find it repeatedly in the suck to the point where you know exactly who you are. Most people are missing something because they don't know who they are.
They never examine themselves. They they've never done this experiment on themselves the lab rat. We're all Lab Rats, but you also the scientist.
You create your own self. Most people are missing something because there's so much trapped in there. I want to do you want to say potential? I think that's were you got too much to there's so much in you that God or wherever the hell you believe in or if you are atheist in you that you have not unlocked that you walk around this gorgeous wife or great husband and all this money like God like I'm missing something. Yeah because it's about 75% of you.
It's still fucking in there.
Still chained up because you just didn't want to find your willpower didn't want to find your souls your will your heart your determination your guts your courage and with that looks like it looks scary like your little scary lab. I went in scary to wake up every day and say I'm stupid, but I want to figure out a way to be smarter.
Versus saying man. I just can't do that. So you limit this box. So your box becomes so small of things you can do my box went in the Box. It was a fucking little like little pinhole it in to examine him myself getting some willpower some courage it became bigger in this table, but that's what we all do. That's why I wanted to come here today and talk to you about real shit not no fucking like hacks. There's no hacks, bro. It's
You against you you against you and if you missed understand that even real problem real problem. I can understand you misunderstand me running on a street shirt off. Fuck this nigga. Yeah, I can I can get it. I get it if you misunderstand I'm saying right now today the problem is you.
And you don't want to fix
it.
Well, the children of wealthy people are a case study in how not having enough friction can destroy a
life true statement? I mean,
I could list off prominent names in the Press. But those are actually the least interesting. What's probably more interesting as an example is all the ones we don't hear about because we never hear about them, right they just dwindle and wither or I think there's this big category of people I'm realizing is we have this conversation today that
They're not super successful. They're not.
Struggling mmm, they're like successful enough that they never have to you can get to the point where you don't have to impose friction. You even said it right your bank account is in a place where you don't really need to do all the things you do. Probably not even a small fraction of them. Nothing, right, but you realize the stick and being haunted is the fuel and the engine right? And you'd be a you be truly crazy to give that up because you've internalized all that right, but most people there.
They're good enough. Yep for them. Yep. And so they don't actually want to be better Batley enough in order to start going wrong after wrong.
Well think about when you build willpower and think about how much I've built.
Now that you know about this this I didn't know about it, but think about how much I've built everything I've ever done in my life. I didn't want to do everything every day. I'm a lazy piece of shit and I want the hardest working people to ever step foot on planet Earth and I´m saying that very proudly because I know what I do not cocky. I'll tell you I'm stupid and I also tell you the exact opposite of what I've done.
It's the truth. It is the truth. So imagine how much I've developed in that timeframe, but it's the scary thing.
Why most people don't want to do that build that will power is because this Gary?
It unlocks a whole bunch of things about who you are who you're not and a lot of people don't want to go down that journey to discover who they are and who they're not.
Because it's not a pretty journey. I mean I've gone down it's not like I went down at once I go down it all the time and when you unlocked it and you can't just turn it off like people say hey, how come you haven't retired yet?
I built all this willpower.
Do you think is good? Let me just
retire because my my knees hurt is telling me every morning I wake up like man, I don't my knees hurt myself. My legs hurt my body hurts, but you can still run so why aren't you running?
If you can still run they'll be a time when you can't lay some up anymore, but you can still run.
So I still run.
When the time comes I can't run the body will say you just can't run. But if I can still do something that will power that I have created it makes me do it every fucking day and that's what they don't get what builds a human being is you start with the small building blocks and before you know, it may you become something that you it doesn't make sense to most people because it's just who you are now, that's why I can still run at 50 with broke with for an hour broke down easy.
Broke down body because my body knows you still can therefore I do second you stop the will power is gone. And that's beautiful. I'm so glad you brought that to me because I was wondering what's this separation thing now?
At 24 years old. I started building something that I didn't even know. It was going to be what it is not 49 and that's all it was was just that
this structure enter amid cingulate cortex has inputs and outputs from a bunch of places, but you'll probably not be surprised to learn that it strongly activated when we move our body when we don't want to move our body.
I feel like it's like the David goggin structure, right it is and it also has strong connections to the dopamine reward pathway and everyone goes yeah, a dopamine rule everyone loves dopamine. Hmm. I'm partially responsible for people knowing a bit more about dopamine but dopamine's badly understood everyone thinks dopamine dopamine hits It's about reward. It's about motivation and drive and there are pain inputs to the dopamine centers of the brain. No one talks about that.
Everyone's like. Oh you want the chocolate, you know chocolate sex cocaine or yeah, that's all true. Right release dopamine pain releases dopamine the interim it cingulate cortex can trigger the release of dopamine in response to this thing that we're calling friction. And that's a learned thing. That's something that no animal or human being comes into the world learning. We all are averse to pain and like pleasure like sugar fat don't like hot surfaces, right but
This is a structure that learns it has neuroplasticity the ability to change throughout the entire life span. And here's the part that I think again is is just neuro nerd speak for what you already know and have done and exemplify is that it people say, oh as plasticity. You can change it we guess what has plastic plasticity in both directions it can grow but just as easily as it can grow. It's like Silly Putty it can shrink right so it requires constant upkeep right and
That answer is in one that people are going to like, you know, they're like give me the energy drink. Give me the supplement. Give me the yes, give me the sauna protocol that's going to make my anterior mid cingulate cortex, like someone out there right now is going to wait if I took transcranial magnetic stimulation and I stimulate yeah, you'd probably actually they've done that. They stuck a little wire during neurosurgery into this structure is actually discovered by a colleague of mine Joe Parisi.
Stimulate and the patient's go. I feel like there's a storm coming and they go. Oh, is it scary the go? No, I want to go through it. They come off the stimulation and people are like this is the seat of what we're talking about. Right? Exactly and it learns so the fact that you kept this brain structure. I'm convinced if we image your brain be large and it would be larger and two years a year.
But this is the no days off rationale because it can
grow and it can shrink. I know what you're saying right now. I didn't know any of this and I never and always talk to you but I wish I could just put this on paper and you're saying it in a way that people can understand I can never put into words on what I built.
And the power that is within all of us, but you put it so like in a scientific way. Most people like for me, he's just crazy.
That's why I don't like talking about it man. I know I'm not crazy. I know what I had to do to get where I had to go people look at as crazy because they're people that just if you can't imagine yourself doing something if you can't imagine yourself doing something the person that's doing is crazy.
Because in your mind the logic behind it, it doesn't compute. Therefore. You have to give somebody a title in a title for me is usually he's crazy. He's this he's that no no.
For some reason he wanted to be somebody so fucking bad in my life.
I created that I've been trying to figure out years of my life trying to explain to people but even though you're explaining it now.
This is the easy fucking part them listening to this shit is heezy fucking part the part that why they're always be the ones of ones is because putting that practice
To put it into actual work. No, man. No. No, that's where the demons come in. That's where you like. I don't want to be better. I don't want to be this is what it takes to be better. I don't want to be better. So everybody's that's why it was a lot of average and it makes me so fucking mad every day. I walked this Earth nicey average all over the fucking place and they want to ask me. How did you do it?
I can't tell you. How could you not going to fucking you're not gonna do it? You're not gonna do it. You just continue you're going to continue because every day you wake up. Like he says like get the coffee make the make the pancakes kiss the girl kiss the kids you wake up right-to-work immediate your mind is in action. No, let's do that. No, I don't blame them, but don't be mad when you're laying there in your fucking bed and you
Fucking Hospital on your 70 80 90 years old you're thinking.
Like I didn't fucking do something because you did you didn't do it. I didn't do shit. You may live the great life man, but you're always good for empty inside. I don't feel empty. It's a car what you want. There's not one empty bone in my fucking body because I have figured out that really the magic potion at least to my life and it's very rewarding.
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Hacker.com huberman people like to talk about what they used to be able to do. I hear this a lot. You should have seen me in high school. I was
laughs. Yep. Okay got it.
And it's not just guys. You should see me working out in high school. I was super fit people will look back to a time where they felt like, they were capable of something and now they're not and you kind of want to just grab me a wait that was you then it's you now and but people tend to think about how the
Conditions that were around success must have been part of it and you can understand why it's like it's very rational. I was in that situation. I was successful. I'm in this situation. I'm not that was the past. This is the present Virgo capable, right? You see how people get into these loops and as you mentioned you spent the first 20 years of your life in a extremely challenged circumstances, and then you can see how people get to a point where like everything feels
Hard when you're 300 pounds, I have never been 300 pounds.
But I can't imagine it feels good to get up and move around. It's defeating. I got a friend. He's in excess of 300 pounds. We've been trying on him for years, but no no win and he's got crazy psoriasis on the back of his calves and he actually smells bad sometimes because he he can't wash as well as he would he's big big right and it pulls all my sympathy right, you know, but life is very hard for him and getting worse. He's a young guy with a lot of medical issues now,
For obvious reasons and so I think people like that think well, it's already hard.
Why would I make it harder?
Your message is a little different and you have the life experience some not different. You've been there. So for me.
Saying oh, yeah lose weight. You know, I was asking guy who got to be a less skinny guy, so I don't really have a foot to stand on.
What do you say to those people who are like listen, I'm getting up in the morning as hard trying to not dissolve into a puddle of my own tears in my own misery is hard.
You are people connect with my book. So well for some reason God put me in almost every fucked-up situation on the planet Earth.
So when I talk to people it's not sugar-coated because I am not saying it from I'm always at her and saying 5 pounds my whole life.
I don't say much those people. Maybe you're a piece of shit. Maybe you're you want to be nobody. Maybe you're happy exactly where you are in life because obviously you are maybe you don't have the determination to be somebody better than Who You Are
and if you want to live with that.
I'll support you in that if you're good with being who you are that every day you wake up and every day you smell like shit because you can't wash your body. Well and your Skin's messed up because you helped so bad and you can't put your clothes on right you need help with any help like when I was doing a I need help wiping my ass.
That makes you feel good.
Nothing to say to you if every day you wake up with this see people are haunted but they obviously like horror films because they keep watching the same fucking movie. I don't like horror films a lot of people like horror films so I don't say much to them. I say exactly what I said to you right there because I was once you I didn't like horror films so I changed it. Some people are just they become like you said it gets real small.
You're lazy and you're fat you will.
Their will is so small that they don't have any and you can't give it to them. There has to be something. This is this is what I'm talking about now because this isn't a hack this has to be in you something in you has to wake up and usually the only person I can wake it up is you sometimes you can read a David Goggins book because I was all this shit and then a lot more of fucked up.
But if you don't have a little flame, you know, just that just barely you're done.
I can't I can't light it for you.
And that's the harsh reality of this life that I want to get across so fucking bad. You can watch me you can watch you you can watch fucking Rogan and Cameron Haynes all these motherfuckers. You can go to Tony Robbins is fucking bullshit the all that shit you all that shit.
If you you could keep going back and keep spending money and spending money and spending might with no results. You can wonder wow, maybe then they go try out David Goggins. He ain't gonna fucking help you. You have to explore examine the insides of yourself. And what do you really want to live your friend? A lot of people out here. Just don't fucking want it to guess what?
Have fun with your life.
Go from 3 to 350 to 400 to 450 to 500 because you don't want it.
And that's the harsh reality. I can't give you shit. You can't give him shit and give you ideas in the day when I was losing the way.
I had to measurably wake up every morning in the cold because it's Indiana November when it started I was miserable.
This is your new life.
Take it or leave it. There's no happiness about it. There's no peace behind it. It sucks. It just fucking sucks. And that's the one thing if I could teach anybody anything it just fucking sucks. It's going to continue to suck and then one day you get to a special part your life that it might get a little bit better but to lose the weight. You have to lose my friend.
Sorry, it's going to suck every fucking day because in 30 pounds, you're gonna go out to lose weight if you're probably get injured.
So then you got to work on the injury and then you get even more depressed. This is I went through and then you're hungry can now you're depressed. It's just a vicious cycle and if you're not strong mentally you have no willpower. You're going to continue falling back in this whole verse the man that sits back and goes. All right, motherfucker. This is why I cut this is what is in me. This this is what it took for me to be me. Sorry. It didn't take hey, okay, we're going to do this today know this fucking really
This is real dude. This is real and every day I'm setback. I'm a setback I'm setback. I'm setback this why we're telling you boy. This one is like what I tell him every day you wake up. You're gonna probably be set back for the first four weeks before you lose two significant weight because of the mine is going to be fucking with you the whole time. There's no dopamine.
There's no dopamine in are at there's a pageant you got nothing. Your hormones are shot. You have to Envision something that is more powerful than you.
Something has to get you out of bed and you have to create it. It has to be false because you're not it you're a fat piece of shit, and that's the reality of it. So you have to create.
A false reality to live in that just to get to work on yourself. That's the reality.
Hello, he'll see this and he'll appreciate that message. We'll see what he does. So we so far last 13 years. It's been no movement, but I've had other friends who were drug and alcohol addicts who quit after one conversation never went back. That's
awesome. That means they want it. Yeah,
just a one one guy. I won't out of them but walked up to me at a party and 2019 July 4th party and said I'm a pile and I go when he goes on my pile look at me. I'm
Two pounds overweight I go to you drank. He goes every day I go how much he goes a case.
As I smoke a lot of weed but he's successful in other areas of his life. So I said, well, here's what I know quit alcohol weed for you. You know, I'm not telling people what to do don't eat until 2 p.m. Get on an exercise bike and pedal in the morning. Like someone's chasing you with a poison dart till you want to puke and I was kind of half joking right and then two months later. He's like I haven't had a drink I lost 30 pounds.
He lost US 60 pounds. He never went back now. He's super fit. It's amazing. Let's just some people flip the switch. He is very self-critical by Nature. That's what
a super self-critical. Yep. That's what flips the switch Yeah. Think about it man. We know what to do.
We don't need Angie huberman to tell us what to do. We know it's due every one of us. That's why you flip this so fast because he knew what to do. He didn't go by your exact protocol.
He didn't go by the exact know he knew exactly what to do.
And you just saying some shit to him it woke something up he knew what to do. And that's the thing that people need to get that, you know what to do. Why aren't you doing it?
And I'm talking about myself now, you know those modes of just kind of passive consumption. They're so easy to wash over us. I used to have this thing and I'm fighting this now because I knew we were gonna have this conversation today where I like to start things on the hour and a half hour right worst practice in the world.
For me because if I miss that half hour, I'm like 1233. I'll start at 12:45, right? That's 12:45. I'll start at one. I just lost time right and then and so this is so stupid. Right and the other day. I was like now I got to tell David about this because my new thing is I start no matter what time it is, right if I wake up in the middle of the night. I got a friend he Paints in the middle of the night. I'm like, you're an insomniac. He's like, I don't know. I just do it and sometimes he goes back to sleep.
Sometimes he doesn't everyone's got their thing. But I thought about this. I'm like am no more. Am I going to say I'm starting at 1 because I know me if I miss the 1:00 Ding and then my pens not hitting the paper not typing in the on the keyboard not gonna do it like that. That's a self-admitted
weakness. I love it man. I had that for a lot of years. I know I'm going to do it. That's the haunting part.
Is that going to happen?
It has to happen.
And that's a fact like there's no get out of jail free card, bro. None like that is a life that I don't know. I don't know. I don't have that.
Ability or I have the ability. I don't have the
I'm not good enough smart enough.
I'm not talented enough.
to do that
some people are
some people can start at one something like to start off.
if you lack Talent, you can't sit back and say
I start in half an hour.
I can't do that. I got start now and after I get back from starting I got start again and then when I get done with that run or that study session if it wasn't good enough, I gotta go back again because repetition this which is what taught me everything so you can honestly outwork anything but it's that you obviously are very talented man.
Well, I have worked hard at certain things and built up some things that I've been good at most
Life your mate. We're Gathering organizing and disseminating information something I've been doing since I was a little kid. I used to give lectures at school on Monday about stuff. I learned over the weekend see checked it out, but they took me to a psychiatrist. We're the same age back then if we got sent to a psychiatrist when people thought you were crazy. I didn't wanna be exactly what exactly so so I remember feeling like a freak. I also I didn't have a stutter bad at grunting tick it comes back when I'm tired and the only thing that helped that was hitting my head on something.
Shaking my head which is why skateboarding was good because I'd slam and I feel like feel good. That's not healthy. You know, that's not good or just work work is what gets it out. It's like a it's like a RPM or high, you know. Anyway, that's me the but yeah, I think certain things over time. I feel like Talent OR gifts or whatever you want to call them. But there are many things that are seeding Lee difficult for me and I have learned from your example. I know that you are very both humble and very clear that like you.
Don't have you say I don't you're not going to get it by examining you but I think the way you're sharing today and the way you share it on other podcast before their pieces that really
help people
feel into the process of what you're talking about. Today. We're elaborating on it. I think a lot, you know this notion being haunted and the stick right? I mean, of course, of course now, it makes so much sense why you don't want to talk about sleep or rest or recovery? Because that's not sure that's him.
Port and I've heard you say, yes you sleep. Yes you eat. Yes you hydrate. Yes, you you will stretch your so as or whatever but it's funny how that becomes the viral message. That's why I said fuck that but that's not the unique. That's not the the unique message that you carry like anyone can talk about that. So do I have that right that you're acknowledging sleep is important recovery is important, but that's not what you're
about. You have to forego something. Yes.
Ice baths saunas sleep nutrition all this shit. So fucking important, dude. I don't have time for some of it to get to extract. I had to extract something had to give like you talked about you and you're younger you would you would give these speeches and stuff the same age you were giving speeches. I was trying to figure out how to say the without stuttering and I realized as I got older that all these things are important.
But for me to stop stuttering I got Bill fucking confidence.
And speech therapy didn't help that nothing out that I have to forego a lot of shit to be as fucked up as I am to build confidence for me to stand in the fucking room of 10,000 of one person and not like I put my head down. Let me look around at me. Let me read these paragraphs first and then before I read the paragraphs because it called me next. Let me just leave the room come with stutter.
That's a miserable life.
And that's one of many things. I did besides lying besides being insecure besides being immature. Besides being fat besides be one of the only black kids in my school has a lot of things I had to overcome to gain confidence.
And in doing so a lot of that had to go a lot of it. So I became the guy that became once again misunderstood you only see four hours a day two hours a day. Sometimes you don't sleep at all. Like what's this? What's this? What's this? I know it's all important.
I can't something's got to go for me to get confidence because confidence is the building block of Ronald trying to go for me to gain confidence in myself. This fucked-up kid has got to do a lot of fucked up shit to gain confidence and along the way the started went away and I gained confidence and now my life is little bit more.
There is no balance.
There's no balance. It's a little bit more what it should be for a lot of people but they're never be balanced because conference is something that you constantly confidence and belief you building every day. And so something's got to give
And I want to forego a lot of things to have that because I know that is that is if you want to give somebody Kryptonite.
Take that shit away from so yeah, I don't sleep sometimes and sometimes I don't eat the right way and sometimes I don't do this and do that and whatever man but you put me in a room or 10,000 people in town today and I walk in there thinking I'm a badass motherfucker in here because I know what it took to be on this stage and a lot of people will not do that. So that's what it takes.
It's a
question. I've been wanting to ask you since we started and I thought about coming in here and I was thinking about in the weeks ahead of this and I'm going to just come clean inside don't exactly know how to ask. The question is asked so it's about relationships.
Ho do it, man. So
I know in myself
that my discipline is much higher when it's just me, but that's because certain things early on but then I had I was a terrible student barely finished high school, but then I when I got serious I got series by did that by staying away from everybody and anyone who's ever had a relationship of any kind but in particular romantic relationships knows that yes, you can drive tremendous support from those like you got this baby you
Can go and you're like yeah, I got this. She said I got this thing, you know feels great to finish something and share with someone share a meal, you know, get the hug it but there's another side to all of that right that I'd like to learn more about from you, which is there's a warm body next to you in bed in the morning. You don't want to get up. They also have needs you've got your mission people sometimes need things from us, but also,
Often times the people that love us most that truly love us and that want to support us don't understand this thing and they're the first people to tell us like listen take a day off and then this whole cycle at least in my head goes off like you just want a vacation and then it's almost like a paranoia. I'm not saying anything nice about myself right now, right? Ah, good more. My girlfriend's gonna be like, yeah, like, you know that they remember they so-and-so support of people close to you is critical.
This could be friends could be romantic Partners whatever but they're also the the knife Cuts both ways. Yep. It can be the thing that can really undermine this thing that you're talking about because the he build that care about us also want to see us comfortable right? Then once he is happy they want to see his peaceful. They want to see us in a wake up from a great night's sleep and they want things too. Right? So, how do you untangle that whole
bit? Well, it's funny man. I'm unbalanced, but I'm mostly unbalanced towards the family side.
She don't get about me. I'll stop being unbalanced. I get all my stuff in but what I do is I make sure that my family has everything they need everything they need.
Those who want to be part of my family some don't some family members don't want to be part of David Gardens. I get it. I got it that's life. Those who are part of my family. I give them everything they need so they can leave me the fuck alone.
I make sure your happiest fuck cuz I got to go to work and I don't mean smokejumping. I don't mean running. I mean all of it it takes every I can't have you in my fucking shit. Okay, so I know for me to have a family I got to make sure that you realize I'm gonna give you everything you need. So we start bitching at me I can say look, hang on.
I dedicated my life to give you everything you need. I need this time right here for me to be the best I can be because this journey started without anybody and I make sure everybody knows that because of my life. I've been left think about it.
I was left alone as long as at a young age to figure this shit out.
I figured it out for myself and have been very successful for myself. No one's going to come in here and fuck with my shit. That's why I make sure I will take care of whatever you need. We have you need for me. You got it money house. My love my support. I'm going to give you everything you need that said I do it the highest level possible. I'm saying that with Jennifer in the Next Room. So please come and say something if it's wrong Jennifer don't give a fuck saves you guys say so then it's time for me to go to work.
I expect you to do the same for me because it takes every bit of me to do what I have to do. So I make sure that I'm very unbalanced for my family so I can be exactly that unbalanced for myself. And that's how I do it. I let people know right up front. I'm not what you want.
In a man, I guarantee that just give you a lot of late nights. A lot of early mornings. A lot of times. I get me by myself thinking about the process that is next in my mind. I can't have aggravation have this camp that there's a lot of things but I let them know up front.
I'm very vocal about that. Sometimes relationships work for me. Sometimes they did it. But that's who I am. One thing. I did wrong in. My life was I tried for so many years to please people and I did it at the expense of myself.
I was leaving a lot in the tank. And and when you do that you stop living but the person in your life is happy as fuck because you give them everything they want they have their life is full but you feel empty and that's not a relationship to me. So for me, it's important that you know exactly who I am because this is what life made and I'm not trying to change it because I just figured it out.
So I'm not trying to compromise David goggin II would never ever compromise. David goddess doesn't mean I won't give you what you need and what you want and what you desire, but I don't need money. I don't need Fame. I don't need shit. So I give it all the way.
What I do need is it make sure that that willpower is worked on every fucking day and every night for the rest of my life because that's the one thing that could keep me feeding. You keeping you where you need to be because once that will power is gone 300-pound David Goggins. He may not be look like it but I will walk around with it. So the things that are important to you in life. You must do always or you're nobody
And that's how I had two
relationships.
Amen to that something I could personally work on that upfront clear communication because I resonate that feeling of like there's something inside that's not getting worked out that I was when I'm on my own it's a lot easier but then of course wanting relationships and family, I think that's a healthy part of Being Human to obviously you've worked it out. So I appreciate you sharing that I don't think I've ever heard you talk about
people that way your the war people are scared that conversation with their wife husband.
But why are you scared of it?
Are you scared to tell a motherfucker your wife your husband who you are?
Who you are exactly who you are and that was the problem. I had that's the problem that a lot of us have in life. No one knows who you really are.
No one knew who I really was. I went to a school with her a lot of black kids a lot black kids. They want to be in Special Ops.
I never talked about special ops 2 black kids.
Why I was wondering what I'm not going to fit in.
That's not what they do. A lot of black kids. Don't do that kind of shit. So whatever I wanted to do. No one really knew the real me growing up because I never want anybody know the real me. I was always afraid of what you might say, or how are you going to feel or whatever you got feelings?
You have a life that you have to live. So it's important that whatever is on your mind. You let that person know therefore you're giving them the option to be with you or not.
This is who I am if you don't like it, that's good, man. I got it. But this is David Goggins. So that's that that honest conversation is very important Master. Everybody knows where they stand that person may not be for you. That's all good.
This world could use a lot more of that upfront completely honest conversation. I feel like so much of the world's problems are because everyone's dancing around the issues or takes a lot recently in the news some people losing their job because they won't say something publicly. You can tell they kind of wanted.
Like people just I think deep down really crave the direct message. Like what are you about? What do you not about but I think now everyone's afraid of getting canceled. It's a big deal, right, you know getting cancelled it people think. Oh, I can't work if I am who I am or or if I'm not pretending to be somebody else then you know silence is considered, you know agreement, you know, there's all sorts of complicated stuff and I do feel for the generation coming up because we didn't have social
Well media, right and all of that that game just walled off from that. There's a real benefit from just not paying attention
people. Love to lie people love the lie. You know, I thought I was only a person grows and I'll grow up eyes on person that lodge because I live in a bubble and people love to lie about who they're not they love to lie about who they're not dude and that's for me. The reason why I'm so vulnerable.
And I'm so real and honest.
Find somebody come out tell me I'm lying about my fucking life and for me to come where I came from and have the resume I have now. You look confidence you get how I don't care who you gonna do. You got judge me. You're gonna judge me. But if you've done in your life, so me being so honest and so up front. And so truthful that came with me finally figuring out who I was but also conquering David Goggins the Demons of
Hawkins therefore now you just open book, you know, there's somebody looking right now. I tell me exactly fuck you. Are you walk away? I'm good broke. I know exactly what this journey took to get here and that gives you a fire in a passion that people can call you nigger. They can call you if you're lesbian or gay or bisexual Kyra. Fuck you want if you put yourself in the fire.
And you come out every fucking day like this brush it off not scared to go back in there again. Come on, man. Your truth is real you come out every day man with a way of talking to people that people don't have because there's no truth behind them in the truth is the starting line when you sitting ugly mirror and say I'm this I'm this I'm this and this you finally started your life. Maybe 40 years old.
Maybe 40 years old five six kids wife is second. Look in that mirror. And you say I'm this. I'm this. I'm this. I'm this. I'm this. Well, basically, I'm not this time not this time. Not this I can't do it. I can't do this. I'm all these insecurities your life. Finally started it. Once you start that life man, the truth comes out big talking all I care.
So that's the problem. Most people just don't want to have that conversation. It's a point where they can go on stage and a million people and say
I'm all this and have a good day. See you. It's empowering very empowered.
I feel like the the way we're educated in school. But also outside of school is were trained as human being as he's young brains to try and figure out how to get positive feedback from other people. Yep. It's like we're like little dogs. Yep. You got the Bulldog. Sure. I had a bulldog saw the picture your Bulldog. She's she's great there Charlie dog.
They're an amazing
species. They are I think of
Economy of effort. Yep, or amazing breed scuse me. They're an amazing breed economy of effort. They don't do anything unless it's necessary. It's a kind of the exact opposite of everything which is kind of interesting that and they're kind of hedonist now it is true that they will they'll die to protect you. Oh, yeah, and it's an instinct. Yes, all that with Costello. I'm sure that with Charlie. Yeah. It's an instinct. But if they're not in that position hmm, if there's no need to exert effort they're arrested. Yeah. So your
I was resting for you. Yes, got it. Exactly. So you don't need to rest because active recovery Charlie perfect. Perfect. That's going to be your answer from now on. It's a beauty sleep does your ass go now. He's somehow worked it out. So it's Bulldog does it for him?
Right but we're so
indoctrinated into this way of being from a time that we're young. We're of course praise feels good, right? So when tells you hey, I like that shirt or good job today or nicely done or for me because I like growing up.
Big packet friends growing up and I was never the greatest athlete wasn't terrible wasn't great etcetera like up this bumper like a feeling crewed up and you're just like, yeah, but you've talked about this before in reference to the SEAL Teams. We both know a lot of people in that community and the team's component is a big part of it for a lot of people and it's a wonderful thing right but there's a danger to that.
Dopamine hit for lack of a better way to put it from what we only derive when it's coming from outside. You're talking about being able to either say good job, but also like just look to one's own personal history and say I I've done hard things and I can do it again and again because I do it again and again and again, you're talking about parenting
yourself. Yep inspiring
yourself scaring.
All of that from the
inside so very different than the way we raise which is to figure out how to get the
biscuit. It's funny man. People want to know how I'm always motivated.
It's the Unseen work was she just says true statement. Those are false dopamine hits that people are giving you man.
There's no belief in that. These are teamwork dope me like I'm out running at 2:00 in the morning when I clock in the morning in the gym long sessions by myself you that's real. How many would it just extract dopamine to good dopamine whenever I want man?
I've trained 99% of my life alone. No one Pat me on the back. I did all of the work alone.
And while I'm still hard on myself, I know what I did. So whenever times get bad people all this who's your carry the boats and lat that's real. I hate that people know me for that guy because that guy is not every fucking day. Like when they see me they want that energy. That's not me everyday. I can extract it immediately when I need you because when you train alone and I lived alone for so many years in this misery and you're able to get out of
Self I can take myself to such a level of real real passion and purpose in like the feeling I get is something I can't explain by my side. I don't need anyone. That's why that's why people come to me to motivate them. No one can motivate me. I have a resume full of fucking motivation that whenever I'm down my oh, hang on motherfucker. Oh, you know, you know the truth, you know that you you know that
Darkness of the fucking dungeon the fucking demons that flight, you know, and then from there it's like okay you were there, you know this there was no one there to pick up the rucksack to pick up the boat to pick up the log to go into it was you it was you there was no patent the fucking back at 308 at 275 250 or 220. No, that was you. So those things that come out of me that extract for me in the darkness. People are looking for that pound of back. Where is it? Oh
I don't need it because what I've done is in the fucking unseen work. I've built Frankenstein. So whenever sick is nasty David Gaga's goes you had nobody anyway, motherfucker. So see I'm Thomas F for now. That's me.
That shit far as me the fuck up. That shit makes me fucking nuts. You had nobody anyway, motherfucker. Look around you there is no fucking team. It was you. There's no weight loss program or Mom and Dad waking you up saying you can do it. You can be better trying to build belief you built belief when you had nothing Rock Bottom you did that. So as times get hard for me.
the truth comes out
and my truth is powerful as fuck. It's real. It's tangible. I feel it. It comes out of my brain as I speak about it. I'm reliving every single dark moment of my life to be here.
So Dad is what people don't get that is what motivates David Goggins is the Unseen work, but everybody needs that pounded back. They need that training partner. They need that accountability coach. Oh, yes shit, and neither do they but it's what we've trained ourselves to believe that we need.
It's almost like there's this pill on the Shelf. I'm speaking in analogy, right and we take it and we get jazzed up like yeah.
But there's this other medicine cabinet behind there and it's in US you're saying the real medicine cabinet is inside. Yes
when you continue to overcome.
It has so many obstacles overcome. So it's actually a benefit to me but the benefit is not like a benefit like that. You have to have the courage and the patience to overcome it overcome before you know it man, you have a whole medicine cabinet, but there's no medicine in the motherfucker. There's no pre-workout. I don't take none of that shit. All I gotta do is flip my brain.
Put my finger in there say okay. That's a good one. It's all I got to do man. I got the Rolodex of just like go fuck yourself Goggins and oh, but she won its do that when a day there's nothing I need and this is the thing that people don't get about David Goggins. I can't teach it in a one minute video.
We all have this ability.
To have her own medicine cabinet, but unless you go in there and put the medicine in there.
It's always going to be fucking empty. May you always get need to pre workout. You know, you need to I don't drink coffee. I don't do can I don't you know that I don't need it. I can run for 70 hours and I had before no caffeine. I got all this wonderful shit that I overcame On My Own by myself in the darkness that man when it's cold. I'm hot.
When it's hot and I can feed myself all the time. That's why when people say amen. Why aren't you missing anything?
I can't explain it to you man. Can explain to you you'll never understand. That's why I'll do all these podcasts dude. I got I love you man. That's why you my first book. You did a blur for me. That's why I'm here. I love what you're doing for people man by can't explain this can I can't explain this because people don't want to do this. They don't want to do this man, but it's I don't know man. I get I get jazzed up even talking about it man because
So many people think my life is just so oh God. His life is horrible. I don't follow him. He's crazy really
but there are a good number of people I would say and that's an underserved are actually do I think it I what I'm hearing today and it's really sinking in is that a great many people either partially or completely misunderstand
you yes,
I do. I'll put myself in the partially category they talk because I thought it was about
Just forward Center of mass carrot carrot carrot carrot but it's the stick. This is Dick and it's being haunted and you know, I do have examples from my own life, which is not what today is about about being really afraid and then turning things around right? My biggest fear is getting comfortable. Right? I do not have as much of a stick oriented approach, but today's conversations changing the way I think I'm not gonna step away from this and think. Okay. They're 25 North
All circuits that can explain 10 of the things that David is talking about and what I'm thinking about is the fact that everybody has a brain they have a mind forget the brain the brain is just the physical structure. But what that manifest what that creates is the mind.
And everybody has that so I do believe that everyone has the capacity to do what you're talking about at some level.
I also will be the first to confess that I think you're a highly unusual. Let's just say maybe even end of one as we say in science sample size of one somebody who is created this process for themselves and keeps them in this themselves in this forward Center of mass with the stick battering the back of their head all the time, right?
highly unusual
But this internal medicine cabinet that you're talking about building up true confidence not needing anything from the outside. I think I like to
think
that people want that they want to be known they're afraid but that they want to be known for who they really are and that you're describing the path to do this and I will say I'm immensely grateful that you're talking to us this way today about things you talked about before but we're hidden in a little differently. I like to think
very different because
What you're talking about is a process its verbs it's all verbs action and it's not about success. It's more actually about keeping that friction dial to 10 right and that I know energy drink no supplement people often misunderstand me. They think you know, like I'm big on people getting sunlight in the morning. So they set their circadian rhythm and get bear sleep. It's like Etc, but then people always think they go straight to the supplements. Yeah. What should I take? You know, and then of course people think I'm all about supplements and supplements are one piece for me.
It's like tiny fraction compared to the doing the do's and
don'ts that's what I want to talk about that today. That's why I'm glad we're talking about this. This is it this is it like the brain is the most powerful weapon in the world.
And it's crazy how a kid that wasn't real smart. I was forced to go only internal external had to go away. The external world had to go away in living. So deep inside myself. It was me in this brain and figuring out how this thing works and it's so many people are doing exactly that the supplements that this that that I agree.
But once you figure out your your brain.
You become Unstoppable to almost anything. You can't beat Death. It can't whatever whatever your brain is. Amazing. Once you feed it the right conversation the right mental nutrients the right mental supplements the right the right internal dialogue at the right time with the right hit with the right proof of what you've done in the past and you send it right to the right circuit do
You're a fucking beast a beast but most again.
You just can't read about it. You can't sit back and be a theorist. You have to be a fucking practitioner. And in that practice is where that becomes proof positive of what I'm saying is like God like David Goggins is blowing my mind. What is this? He's not crazy and so many people
a lot of people
I've listened to me the right way and they come back and like
I'm totally on board. I it happened. It happened. I like
Keep going man to keep doing it. But that is it, man. There's no sun.
There's no glory. There's no carrot. There's no victory.
But there is all of it and one I can't explain it real well to people man, but what you get the other end is something that you're not you always found your never lost any more does it mean the journey is easy.
Doesn't get any easier, but you always found.
I love that. I just want to hover on that first set the same way. We hovered on haunted in the stick.
I think people feel lost. I've certainly felt lost at times in my life many times. And yeah, there's that thing. I don't think there's a neuroscience or a psychology term for it. Someone will say put it in the comments and say oh, yeah, that's what so-and-so said. But like you said, we're not trying to be theoretical here. We're trying to be practical the business of finding yourself.
and knowing like
but it's sort of like I'm safe because I'm in danger and I've been in danger before and I got myself out
it almost always seems to
come back to verbs again. I don't have a language for this. You know for once I'm lost for words. There's like it's about a process the algorithm and you and the reason here. I'm just kind of try to make sure I'm understanding things correctly. One of the reasons why it must be uncomfortable for you to be who you are publicly is because people want us to focus on the running or the swearing and
Way the swearing is is welcome. I'll tell you I came up through Laboratories where all three people I worked for.
Swore a lot, but there was one rule I couldn't swear at people. So my graduate advisor brilliant woman. Unfortunately, she died early. They all died early.
I'm the common denominator. I had that internalized for a long time. Anyway, she said but if you swear people you're out, right, but you can swear as much as you want. So that's that's the rule I have. It's like an Square as much as you want to just don't swear at people and you swear people better be ready to fight. Right? Right. Doubly not gonna fight you so you can swear me get away with it. But the fact of the matter is that it must be frustrating that people because I know they will all it's all about supplements a nice badge. I listen. I like supplements. I love supplements and Ice baths, but that's not the full picture. They just a
Channel pole it's the swearing. It's the running. It's his feet that are all messed up is the fact that he got a Triton is this seal guy? Yeah talk about that too, right, you know and there's a gravitational pull for people and they're missing like the that's like the tip of the iceberg is what I'm realizing. I'm realizing that today. Thanks to the way your phrasing things because the bigger vessel is all in here. And as you said, how do you put that in a
book? It's impossible
because it's highly individual. Yeah, you do it your way. Yes.
Yes, and you're saying everyone needs to go figure out how to do it their way for
them. Yes. And the thing about being misunderstood is very frustrating more than I can even imagine. I can't even express how frustrating it is when
The cussing and everything comes from a place of real. I can't explain what I do without it.
The passion comes out of me. It's almost like speaking in tongues because when you put that much work and people are oh, yeah, there's been this basketball player this football player this
Dude, no, no everything everything is work everything and people don't don't believe it. So when I speak
The motherfucker and in the fuck and shit. And is that is what it took for me what it takes for me the anger the passion the
The jaw-dropping just it takes that because I'm not that this how I look at it man. What built this guy? Let's imagine being the coldest water you can possibly take
I always go back to help me with this. I hate it that water hated it you're sitting there locked arms and you're in the water all the time and they're bringing you in out of the water. In other words when you have this dialogue in your head and these people are judging me off of a freaking women at video.
And you're constantly your whole life when you figure it out 24 the I gotta gotta this fucking God and this is just going to suck every day is going to suck in live like that.
To be better and I put this when I'm in the water the water is going on my head the Pacific Ocean. You know, it's freezing February. Kodesh it been three whole weeks.
For you to constantly win-win-win when this voice over here. The real you is saying get the fuck out of here go you're nobody. You've always been nobody and it's true. You don't hear that. That's a true voice. That's a real reality of David Goggins.
At 24 years old. It's not a false reality. And then you had to create another voice over here.
That I saying you're better than that other voice and you're in the freezing cold water that both voices don't want to fucking be in.
But you win.
And goes from the water to the studying to the running to losing weight the how you eat how you function as a man every day of your life. You're winning these battles and then I have normal people.
You only have one voice.
Never created the second voice. The winning voice is a second voice to have a one voice.
And that's just I'm a piece of shit.
That's all they hear and then they judge people like me who are out here trying to be better.
It's something that I can never really it's a frustrating thing for me.
Because I know I know the majority of people I know what goes on the brink I studied in my more than almost more than you because I wasn't I'm a practitioner. So for you to be a piece of shit and come out of that. You don't just come out of it you spend decades.
Studying your mind in the human mind and how it functions in good environments bad environments stressful environments patient environment. You studied all because you had to put all this together to create the mind to become successful. So I had to like God blessed me with this brain. I had a creative mind.
And so in doing so I figured out every piece of shit human being in the world because that's what I was going off of for myself.
So I know why you go on Instagram. I know why you because you just have the time you have the time because you don't want to put that time into bettering oneself. So I know what I misunderstood I misunderstood by people who have plenty of time on their hands to misunderstand me because they are exactly where I once was which is a low-life lazy piece of shit.
There's a harsh reality of people who troll you who go after you have nothing better to do with your life is not some after-school special. It's the truth by once was that way. I know where all comes from that's why it's frustrating me now because I'm not so frustrated the fact that I'm being trolled on. First of all fact that you have the courage the courage to try to be somebody better than what you're not.
That's the first training part.
It's interesting because earlier we were talking about relationships and you said it in a very candid way and I really appreciate you sharing that that you make sure that the people close to you your family has everything they need right and that they also understand that you're going to take what you need to continue to build you right period period in some ways
It seems you've also included the general public in that family. You're saying listen. I'm going to give you what you need. I'm gonna give you as much of myself as I can except. I'm going to stop right at the line right that if I were to cross it is going to prevent me from continuing to build myself. And by the way this relationship only exists because I don't cross that line is right and I think as much as there are detractors out there people that try right
I mean, it's pretty whatever they're doing is brief feeble in my mind. I mean, it's like cap gunfire, you know that if if that, you
know, so many of
us men and women old and young hear something and feel something in your message. Well like yeah, like it seems kind of crazy gosh, like it's never just relax. You know, what about his sleep? You know, they look at his feet. He's gonna he's gonna enjoy him. So I've heard listen I'll be very direct. I got friends who are in the team.
You just go. Yeah, what's he going to do when he can't run and I know the answer is to keep running. It's right, right, but it's more comfortable for people even high Achievers.
Especially High Achievers
to believe that if you took one thing away that it would all go away. It's absolutely clear. That's not the case with you. I'm 100% convinced. I just know that because what we're talking about
this Jimmy times, I haven't been able to run two heart surgeries multiple knee surgeries and after every knee surgery. They say not gonna run again.
And I'm fine with that.
There's no running up here, bro.
None, this was what it's all about. That's what they lost. We've you can't run give a fuck. It was never about running. Why do you think I run? It's the worst thing. I hate doing it more than anything.
Hence, the willpower
write your answer amid cingulate cortex his would we would start to regress if you loved
running think about it every day. I wake up. I'll just run a mile two miles. It's the one thing I hate the most to do and I do it like I love it two hundred and fifty sixty seventy Three Hundred Mile runs at one time. No sleep in every step I get to think about this I get to the fucking start.
Cussing at Jennifer. Why the fuck am I here? I hate this shit.
After send me some hours of running every fucking question I ever had as answered.
Every question has answered icap success.
I don't feel good. We meet your cap success.
For me to be who I am.
so when I go smoke jump
I'll smoke jump three to four months out of the Year. Sometimes five.
Could you just for those that aren't educated about just like give us a brief description of what smokejumping entails. So
basically you you jump into fires not into them, but you jumped by fires that people can't get
to so out of planes and helicopters right on a plane size large
shoot this all parachuting. So you perish that airplanes and then you fight the fire you and sometimes four other guys, or maybe eight.
Guys guys and gals and you're putting this fire out.
So I lose millions of dollars every summer to do this.
It blows people's minds why the hell you doing
this and you're breathing such abuse. It needs a jacked
up hitting the ground hurting whatever talking to know more people than ever get it's on even explain it to him.
But this is why I dislike all caps success. I'm talking financial success for me to continue having that will power.
the second
I just become a speaking monkey and travel around and speaking gigs 12 months out of the year put camps on do this put on lectures get supplement lies and do this and write more books and shit I've ruined
The exact thing I worked on my entire life.
And why I didn't know it till the day but something always told me.
This is a very very very perishable skill this this will power that you have because I do have a real power that I have never seen anybody. My life is a haunting force that this keeps me going. And I know that that is my strength if you have that so that's worth every dime I've ever made in. My life is the fact I can look at man. The I finally have a real conversation without going like this.
Because I'm lying or I'm a piece of shit. I know you know how person in so many people do this shit. They're talking to you.
On who they want to be they're lying to you and they walk away. I've done it so many times walk away like God man. Michael is tell the truth. Why the hell can I just tell him the truth?
No good. It feels to me. Now. Look at you and your eye and every man a man I see because we won't get this women will not get this man a man that man shit you looking at man. I and you know that everything you're fucking saying is real and it comes from a real working Place something that you earned. It's the best feeling in the world.
You can say that actually happened. Yes. I know with certainty what I'm saying actually actually happen
who I am who I say I am.
I am no more lies no more skirting the truth no more bullshit. And that is worth every dime I've ever made in my life. And I swear to God on that every dime I've ever made in my life building who I've built so I cap success because I know that if I ever go 12 months out of the Year and no put several everyday. I'm going at it but several months out of here I go, right.
back to Ground Zero
Which means I'm just fucking David goggin. No Goggins. No carry boats fucking logs bullshit. It's just pick up that fucking Pulaski and dig. Hey get that fucking pump walk down a mile put in the fucking water mosquito has beaten your just David Goggins, you know, buddy because that's where my growth is. That's your my will power comes from and that's where it stays. That's what I talk to you now and it came I talk like this.
You don't got a pass because it ain't there any they're they're they're regurgitating some shit from Thirty fucking years ago. I'm a Gerson taking shit from an hour ago our go.
Come on, man. It's just
be real and I can't be on these podcasts. I can't talk to anybody without being real. I'll go away. I was go away because I can't give you what I want to give you.
He said perishable skill. I think that's another word said the words. I want to highlight because skill implies behavior. And when we were just talking a second ago about the Deep true Bedrock sense of confidence that comes from looking someone in the eye and telling somebody something that you absolutely know. It's true because it happened you're talking about actions not talking about perceptions. You're not talking about what you believe happened, you know, it happened and there's something really
Concrete about actions and that's what's so interesting is we're talking about the mind but actions are the manifestation of the mind and I and the stuff that just stays in here.
People die with that. It doesn't go anywhere. I long ago. Somebody said, you know, I forget what the context was was a neuroscientist. He said, you know most emotions like they're just emotions they just in there but you don't have to do anything with them and I think certain emotions you want to do something with right, but I think people forget this they feel miserable like they're going to dissolve into puddle of their own tears. No one ever died from an emotion, right, but they feel like they overwhelm us as if it's a tidal wave. It's going to pull us under and drown us. It's so interesting.
Thing to me because I think what people listen to you have a gravitational pull people can feel the energy. I think. Yes, you're either completely badly or partially understood. There's only one guy on the plant that truly understands you. I think there's one woman Jennifer who probably understands you as much as anyone's going to and then the rest of us are kind of grasp and trying to figure it out, but you're saying go inward. So first go, Inward and then its actions in order.
Dan actions now, the inward peace is something I'd like to just spend a little bit of time on because there's a couple characters from history people that were in Concentration Camp Nelson Mandela. I'm not sure he had Instagram in there. I'm pretty sure he didn't and I don't think there was any one coaching him on like hey, you're going to get out someday. And actually you're going to lead an entire country. I'm pretty sure that's not how it worked. He had to find it here, huh? He had to find it between his ears right and there are other examples but that's an important one. So the
of going inward does it for you and here I will ask for suggestions because I think people want there are those of us who want to build this
skill right
wall yourself off phone off for big portions of the day,
perhaps texting off
requests the this the that
Anyone that knows you knows that we've communicated few tax, but most of it comes through a filter. She's great. She knows you you know, and she knows how to protect your
time and that hurts people's feelings because I get mad
about that. Hey, God bless. God bless you Jennifer, you
know.
Cutting oneself off when you're in there. You say it's just you.
And the voices that come up are not pleasant.
And then at some point it converts to action.
Okay,
how much what is the process of picking the action? That's the piece that I feel like week. There's like a bridge to build here if you can if you would
so the action be like it's like what's
next? Yeah. So what like when you go go to sleep at night when that happens.
You know what you're going to do the next day. It's pre-planned.
Yes. Okay. Yes. It's it's always the same thing. You're not building it on the Fly no, nothing on the Fly nothing. So how Works internally for me is I'm I put it exactly how it is. I'm an artist.
And every day I'm putting I'm painting Mona Lisa.
Every day and but it's a different one. It's not the same painting. So every day I wake up, you know do the same thing. It takes a different way to get there. So every day in my mind, I'm going through my mind. I'm just like and a good painter will not just paint.
you need to create and you can't create the phones and everything going around you so you got to block yourself off you're going to do to podcast in here you block yourself off and you're in your painting this thing inside and you're going through all these different colors of paint and everything else and you can only figure out the right painting if you spend the correct amount of time in your brain, so every single day, I'm literally going through my mind and I'm painting I'm creating this
this masterpiece it Masterpiece is always myself and but to do that you cannot have any distractions because if you're talking to an artist and he's trying to think about the next painting he can't so it's impossible to listen to you and listen to what your mind and body are telling you we must do people don't do enough of don't do any of it your they don't have passion they lack passion Drive determination because you haven't spent time with your
Of your mind will tell you what is next.
But you haven't spent the time to go. All right, let me just figure this out.
You're looking for let me Google this and let me Google that and let me you're not going to find it there because there's billions of people in this world.
And they're all supposed to be individuals.
We have a pack mentality.
That's why you're so fucking lost. Why am I so unique?
I'm being exactly the fuck. I'm supposed to be I'm fall shit in my did fall shit. I was like everybody else.
The second I said, okay man, hang on dude. You don't like this. You don't like this. You don't like this. Who are you David goggles? Who are you supposed to be?
Miraculously all these things just I couldn't even the list of shit I had to do just why I am like fuck. Okay. Wow, once you sit down yourself and say okay. I don't want to be like Michael Jordan or Jim Brown it both of my birthday. So I looked at the birthdays. I don't mind. Maybe only I can't
I'm going to be David fucking Goggins.
And that looks like this it just came everything flooded. So every single day of my life, there's a different thing that comes up they have to do but no one knows what to do because everybody else is following steps like the Republican and Democratic parties. I'm not political
neither. Am I at all for this reason?
Republicans are going to vote Republican.
Democrats are going to vote Democrat.
You're not even a human fucking being bro. No way. All you fuckers agreed all the same fucking shit.
And I know I don't so once you figure out yourself and who you are all the answers come. So every night a different painting is being painted and it's a beautiful painting for myself. Like okay, that's it. It may look the same to most motherfuckers, but the end result is very fucking different. That's why my large eye if you look at what I've done in 49 years. It's more than most people ever doing a lot because they were a race car.
Driver, that's what they did. They drove a fucking car. It's great.
I was all kind of shit because that's exactly what the painting was saying to do for the Maya was saying to do when saying to drive across them that race car driver know what the fuck do they he he retires from being a race car driver and they're lost people. How are you still don't get it. Do you you never going to feel your list but you never found your list because it never was presented in front of you because your head was cluttered with shit.
Because you never just stop for lots of minutes lots of years and they said all right, it's me and you let it go and this bam. It's right there. It's right there.
I'm not a psychologist as I mentioned before.
But I'm an adventurer a hypothesis
here.
I think
that you've mastered the process of internal dialogue, but when I say dialogue, I think most people think oh the the inner voice that the chatter but that's just 1/2 of a dialogue a dialogue is a two-way street.
So I
completely agree because I know from experience that when we go inward oftentimes, we hear things if we're really honest with ourselves. It's like I don't think about that that no and then we start looking outward or we start
Trying to shift our attention and distract.
And there are a million reasons that are handed to us excuses and seemingly good justification to be able to do that.
But dialogue is a two-way street and hit me while you were just saying what you were saying. I was paying very close attention and I realize David Goggins is talking about the voice that comes up including the terrible stuff that no one wants to hear about themselves from themselves. But then he's also got the dialogue down where he knows the counter voice, right? He goes. Yeah, you're right. And so I'm going to do this or maybe no remember this you're in a dialogue at all.
Dialogue in there not a one wage chatter dialogue. There are books written by famous psychologist about chatter trying to shift your internal narrative. You're like bring the internal the internal narrative. That's what going inward is about but it's not one voice again. There's a hypothesis. I'm not claiming to be all-knowing Lord knows I'm not all-knowing. Okay, but you've mastered the dialogue and if they're three voices
strong medium and week in there. You're like, let's all come to the table. So you've got a symphony of voices in there that are all you that you know to be you and you know how to have those conversations are not afraid to be in those conversations and then you know, which what the outcome of that committee decision is and you put into a real world action and the world only sees the action is it and only you can know your dot internal dialogue and only I can know my internal dialogue.
And the only way to quote unquote know it is to spend a hell of a lot of time there. That's right. Okay a lifetime got it
a lifetime ago. Think about it.
For me to be sitting here in front of you. You're not going to call 300-pound Ecolab guy to come sit here. You might I don't know maybe probably not probably not think about this.
What we teach people is kind kindness to yourself.
Do you think if I taught myself kindness and I agree with it God's Mighty. So many people take me out of context. It's ridiculous. Take it. However, the fuck you want to take it when I was 300 pounds.
We think that conversation would got me if I spoke kindness to myself. I'll tell you what gets me right back to 7-Eleven another box of mini chocolate donuts in the chocolate milkshake.
That's the one voice.
That's the one voice that most of us have that you're talking about. If you're never conversation in there the other voice that you create that says, okay.
How does this look looks very ugly?
That kind conversation for me went away a long time ago, which is why the dialogue is now which you see a lot of action because most people have in action because it's one person talking and that one person is always lean you down the same path the path that makes you feel very comfortable and happy with yourself.
The second you create the other voice there's conflict.
This battles is Wars.
Just defeat one thing I learned I taught myself this and people got I don't understand what you're saying. I don't try to break it down real quick.
I didn't teach myself Victory first.
I taught myself failure.
I taught myself how to fail.
If you got that's so depressing is it when you're 300 pounds and you can't read and write and you're fucked up yummy times you're going to fucking fail on that process. So if you don't know how to fail there is no victory.
I never talked about winning because I knew the path to winning was could be years of failing first. So I taught myself how to fail properly. Don't teach you how to fucking fail.
But if you're going out for insurmountable fucking odds that make absolutely no fucking sense of black kid that can't swim through in Japan will be Navy SEAL, okay.
You better teach them how to fail first because if you sit in failure for too long, you will never come out of it. So the first part of My Success was learning how to fail properly.
and then you eventually
I started getting a few victories.
But that's what people don't get when you've buried yourself in such a deep fucking hole. You better first talk about the failures. You're going to have first and action that other voice comes up. It tells you we got to do something also tells you boy. I'm not gonna lie to you Goggins you're in for a fucking climb, bro. You're gonna get your ass handed to you made fun of the outside noise. The inside noise. Both voices are gonna be fucking telling you to go fuck yourself you are in for
bro
I am so brother understand.
So this is what you mean when you say that whatever anyone says it's insignificant in significance fuck right? It's the cap gun fire because it's just like it because the voice in your own head is is far worse than that and I should say sorry one of the voices in your head. Yes. Yeah. I'm I'm being very like detailed almost surgical about that because I think this thing about inner dialogue we think is one voice. Yes, but you're making it clear its many
voices it is and the thing about it is
You have to be really sometimes all the voices are telling you the wrong shit man, but through Years Years not a podcast or listening to a book or reading a book years of sacrifice of suffering of diligent pinpoint fucking work on what you want to do for yourself. Not like. Oh, let me just do a bunch of shit.
Let me I want to be in every task possible. No pinpoint what I want to do with my life. What happens is you have all these voices that are telling you you're fucked up and this is gonna be hard but for some reason you put so much practice into you.
That you can ignore every one of them. They're telling you not going to fucking make it.
And still be able to fucking make it.
Because you have put the practice in that, you know, this is the process is such a daunting task that all the voices are saying no, but you still had the conviction that I know I can do this and that's what it took for me to get here.
20 30 years ago. I had this 35 or whatever was 30 to 25 years ago pipe dream.
Ever since then every voice was like sheer fucking nut.
But when you put that practice in every day, you lace them up and I mean Ron it's just a metaphor for life when you lace them motherfuckers up every day pretty soon. You win pretty soon you'll fucking win if you have the courage and the heart and the dedication and the minds of everybody and go fuck themselves. I know what I know. I've listened to myself enough to know.
I know what I know. None of you can hear what I'm hearing.
And that's what people don't do enough up. They don't listen to their Journey. They listen to everybody else's shit before you know it I'm crazy, but I'm so fucking crazy. I am I so successful.
how that happened
I'm so misguided and miss and fucked up and don't listen to him.
Why am I the only one to do a whole bunch of shit? Why am I Trailblazer?
Why how is that possible how can you be fucked up and also self made the same fucking it? No, no, obviously you're not looking at the truth in front of you. The truth in front of you is it sucks? It's painful.
It's fucking my numbing and that is the truth. And that's why a lot of people don't like listening to me because this is what it takes create another voice and sometimes going out alone.
All the time going it alone because no one can believe in you and that's that.
What I'm about to say is not conjecture and I can say that with confidence because I did a four-episode guest series with a brilliant psychiatrist guy named Paul Conti Trenton. He's a Stanford Harvard trained guy. He's also got a lot of Street and um, he said his own hardship real hardship.
He's brilliant and he said something that I'll never forget which is you know, we think that the forebrain the part of our brain that creates strategy Etc is the supercomputer. He said no no. No,
it's
like the supercomputer of the brain is the is the unconscious mind. It's the part of our mind that's controlling most everything and most people unfortunately don't do the work to understand how their unconscious is controlling them and that's a scary thing this idea like your mind is controlled.
And you you know, and I'm not going to get into the Free Will debate. I believe in at least some will
I believe what you're describing and this internal dialogue.
I think you have access to your unconscious mind you by listening to the dialogue going inward. We know this is true in sleep in dreams in meditation and just by shutting out everything else shutting out all the external noise, which is filled with things that pull us twice noise makes it sound bad but it's the gravitational pull of all the things that just allow us to distract ourselves without knowing that you know is the ice cream have a cookie the merry Christmas the unconscious mind this
Each
piece of the iceberg underneath that Paul calls the supercomputer. He's saying that with knowledge as a neurobiologist psychiatrist psychologist. He really knows that's the piece that if one does real introspection calls it the cupboards. You got to look in the cupboards and it's often really scary what you find in there and most people are just like I don't even wanna know the cupboards are there, but you're pulling all the cupboard doors open.
And then you're and I'm you're extremely deliberate with what gets put into action.
You're not just going all like I'm pissed. So I'm going to act Pastor. Um, you know, tired someone act tired. It's you're picking very carefully what to do.
And that's a process that I'm guessing came to you. Does it come to you as a okay, it makes sense why running makes sense. It makes sense why smokejumping makes
sense? So seems like a
huge.
Portion of your time is spent understanding yourself and making sense to you. And so when people don't understand you it's got to be extra frustrated. Yes, because most people don't understand themselves. So they were all running around going like you're this and you're that because most people are just unwilling to look Inward and I'm including myself by the way, right? I mean, I've done a fair amount of introspection, but I'm inspired today that word inspired, but it's true motivated.
To start going inward further because it is scary. It's like we don't know what's in those cupboards and it's terrifying. Yes,
especially because we don't know those are the first ones open up and I he talked about you got go through as covers. I do spray and clean every fucking day in those dark covers those those dark cabinets. And once I start with first, that's the real me man.
That's the real me. That's why I'm not ashamed.
I don't hide I used too hard. I don't hide anymore. He's exactly right. I don't know all the fucking science behind shit. I know what I know. That's why I'm listening about anymore. I don't listen to shut the most people are full of shit because I know I know the deep dark secrets of those fucking coverage so ugly man in every day. I'm talking to him every day. I'm clean them. I'm cleaning them and I'm talking to the same demons that came out fucking cover some cheap as I'm cleaning them. Sometimes it go right back in him again.
It's not easy.
And this is why most of us just write him misunderstood because we're comes out of those cabinets that I'm cleaning. Sometimes they see on Instagram something that they'll see it in the pocket. Sometimes I've seen this one. I turn people off open up your own cabinets and then go talk about it.
Let me see how pretty it looks let me see how pretty you sound. Let me see how put together your words are. I bet you a fuck or a motherfucker comes out because for you to go back in there again to clean the same fucking cab that a demon came out of take some big balls, bro.
Do it every day of your life to go back in there in spring clean every day. Not once a fucking year once every decade every day, you know, it gets dusty and every day you'll start with the with the victories. You don't go. Oh, this is nice looking my look at my I love me while me clean up this little Dusty. No I go right for the things. I could keep me buried I go right there first because if I don't clean those out first the date,
start
so what are you saying to me is truth.
And like I told you many times a day. I can never figure out how to explain this shit to people because I'm not neuro nothing. I'm just a guy that said okay, we got to start in a dungeon and we got to stay here for the rest of our lives for you to become successful to dungeon is a place that has to be clean and it's a scary place to be
That's why I'm misunderstood because I'm speaking from the dungeon. That's why I am successful because I go there every damn day. And that is the truth. When he says it's the exact truth. Those cabinets are fucking Dusty dirty and scary as shit broken glass fucking dark spiders cobwebs, but most of all your biggest fears.
The biggest things that put you in a fucked up place you are today or in there. So we all like to keep me shut you like the lock them up act like that never happen. That's where you never grow. You never improve. You never have real conversations that we're having right now. Never never. Oh, no. No, no. No, let's not. No. No. No, let's not go there. I talked to so many people tell me that.
Let's talk about this.
Because you'll tell me but they can only say once and they'll say it in passing. They won't get deep in the weeds with it. Like you can't just clean it motherfucker. You gotta spit shine that motherfucker. You got to relive it every fucking detail of it. You can't make oh, yeah. Yeah my dad beat me and they know you know, it is what it is is what it is motherfucker. It's killing you.
It's taking over your whole fucking life. But that's the conversation. Yeah, my daddy and my I'm fine now though. I'm good. Okay. All right. No, you ain't yeah fine. Yeah fine. This is this is real talk people don't have that. So your boys right 100% right? Scary as shit is scary as shit that makes you who you're supposed to be.
And that's the test. We forget we think we're supposed to breathe air and have kids and pay the bills and shit.
What's this life about the legal sense?
Being tested my friend test come.
When you have not studied test come when you think that you're in a great place, that's that's the test. The test is everyday your life and most of us fail because we don't know why we're here because we don't go inward to say. Oh you came here a lot of shit to fix man.
And this test sucks, but did you start?
David Goggins
I don't think I could add to that. I know I can.
Thank you.
For sharing what you shared
today?
I mean
as much as your process or anyone's process can't be completely understood from the outside. You gave us a real window into this thing this process that you was as you said God put it on you. I believe in God to people can believe what they want. But I've somehow your your life God gave you these challenges early on and then there was a point where you went internal.
And
like you said you developed a skill, but it's a perishable skill and you clearly live in the process of opening those cupboards reopening those covers trying to spit shine those cupboards understanding that they're never ever really done but that you can gain ground on them. You can win day after day after day and you really shared a lot of concrete things that
I think I know people are going to be able to apply if they choose right and I agree with you. I think most people will be like, whoa. I was a lot. Yep tevye I think I want to just kind of baked myself in Netflix and
Chex Mix. Yep
instead, but there's also the reality that there are men and women boys and girls here that and go okay.
And
start cracking the cupboards open, right? And I just know that you know for myself, I'm extremely grateful that you're willing to put it all out there. You're so brutally honest so brutally authentic that word authenticity gets thrown around so much.
And I can tell you that for me and for everybody else like that's what really what resonates so whether or not you want to whether or not it's the purpose behind or not.
You're lighting the path. So thank
you. Thank you. Thanks for having
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