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Hello boys and girls ladies and germs. This is Tim Ferriss. Welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferriss show. I'm nervous. I'll explain why I'm nervous in a minute. My guest, he's a very friendly fellow, he's not trying to make me nervous. It's name is Chris Bosh on Twitter at Chris Bosh. He fell in love with basketball and early age and earned the prestigious mr. Basketball title while still in high school. That was at Lincoln High School in Dallas. Texas, not far from where we are. Sitting in Austin, Texas. A McDonald's All-American. Bosh was selected. Fourth overall by the
The Raptors after one year of attending Georgia Tech by the end of his basketball career, he was an 11-time that's more fingers. And you have folks, 11-time NBA All-Star two-time champion and the NBA's first Global ambassador of basketball. In March of 2019, Bosh's number 1, Jersey was, officially retired for the Miami Heat in addition to his basketball career Bosch founded. The community uplift organization team tomorrow in 2010 and regularly speaks to youth about the benefits of reading coding and Leadership, Bosh, his wife.
Adrian and their five children. Reside here in Austin Texas. His new book is letters to a young athlete which includes a foreword by Pat, Riley,
Chris Bosh can be found in many places online Twitter as mentioned at Chris Bosh, Instagram at Chris, Bosh and Facebook official, Chris Bosh, Chris CB, welcome to the show.
Appreciate it, man. I'm excited to be
here. I was looking at the copious notes in front of me. I was joking that I feel like the main character Memento, I don't like to show how the sausage is made, but this is the first in-person interview since covid, for me. Really, I certainly indoors.
And I'm looking at this bile, and I'm looking, and I'm looking, and I'm looking, did you ever go to the
Olympics? I went to the Olympics.
Yes, I thought. So I may not be the best researcher, but I thought that, that and had two things go at the Olympics. Amazing. And what was that? What was the outcome? You know, the
Olympics were one of those things. I had the time of my life there and, you know, and when I mean, time in my life at that age, I was right where I was supposed to be.
Back in 92 when they constructed the dream team together. I was just a little kid and touches Texas, watching TV and I just thought it was cool that they had basketball in, on the summertime on regular TV. Because, you know, you couldn't really watch TV, you had to have cable to take in as many games as possible. And I was just one of those kids out every anything basketball. I'm taking it in, and I remember just that time of the Dream Team watching them. It was just incredible. Wait a minute, Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson.
Essen and all these guys on the same Tina doesn't? Yeah, I was trying to
comprehend it, the X-Men. Yeah. You know what I mean?
And that pretty much sparked the obsession. And so, every Olympics, I mean, I would watch the Olympics. I mean, we watch gymnastics, we'd watch track and field, we'd watch anything to do with the Olympics, and get in the take part in Beijing was quite amazing. And, you know, just to be there, taking part in the opening ceremony, but most importantly, getting to have the experience of playing basketball for
Country and being able to represent the USA and win a gold medal. I mean, that was
everything, you know that you have a good bio just for those who didn't pick up on this, when you can omit the Olympic gold medal from your body out. Just as a side note that doesn't happen all too often. The reason I brought up the Olympics is because I had heard, I think it was might have been LeBron, James who mentioned this, but that while other
People were killing time or doing a b and c playing cards. You were trying to teach yourself Spanish and this is the type of anecdote that came up over and over again. Whether related to craft beer collection and making craft beer. There are these parallel tracks and I found that very interesting because sometimes it's the side notes. That tell a lot of the main story even though basketball is the most obvious. Yeah. Is that a myth, is that true?
Banish the ancient. It's probably true. Yeah
I'm surprised that they would remember something
like that,
you know to me that's you know that was when you had to like have the whole a CD set
a separate bag for? Yeah. You gotta have a whole separate carry
on. I could see that and I forgot all about that actually. But yeah, I mean language was always something that was just nagging at me and I just had to do
and godly back in 2008. That would mean I just started and I was trying to put two and two together and I thought it was so cool that Rosetta Stone had a eight CD packet that you could take with you and download on your computer that you could buy at an airport kiosk
tomorrow and that was the thing. Absolutely. Yeah and I thought that was so cool because I got that
but I remember taking it with me I was always always had a fascination with language. Always trying to pick it up and believe it or not, it actually.
Drafted by Toronto in the beginning years. For some reason, I wanted. I thought I could learn French like, oh yeah. Well, our
friend, no problem, no
problem. And I got up there, everybody speaks another, you
know, and so it's like you gotta watch TV and I was trying to watch
TV, it just didn't happen and it didn't make any sense. And so probably a few months after that I said, okay, I need to learn Spanish because more, there's more Spanish speakers in the world than there are French. So let's start there. And yeah, I started
learning Spanish and that was before I got a tutor, so I started with Rosetta Stone and you know, that was okay. And then I hired a tutor and then I ended up making the move to Miami eventually which it helped me out quite a bit. Just in Koh. Oh yeah. Guy ocho. He
shot out my
Spanish. I'm I'm their son, you know, and they really really loved it but just the culture that was down in Miami it was just really just a perfect fit and
Know what it was? I just had to learn. Languages is just one of those things that just calls me communicating with people talking with people. And, and really, it was always beneficial because we would have teammates. I have had
Three, three teammates from Spain, two or three teammates from Spain. And you have guys coming from Europe and Africa and South America and stuff like that. So you want to be able to communicate efficiently with them and, you know, just learning different languages and stuff like that. It is help me quite a
bit. You can cover a lot of the globe of Spanish, you know, a lot of lives. He's absolutely. And it's a good beginning, right? That's all good. Latin bass. Cause then you
can lo que Portuguese.
Italian you can hop around. Yeah,
you can hop around pretty.
Easily, but it could
happen. So I heard you say the words. Kyoto. Mmm in your, I don't want to say last speech, but when your jersey was put up into the rafters. So for people who don't know, and don't worry folks, if you don't know anything about basketball, that's me too. Because I have little squirrel hands. I'm very small and during the winter is when basketball was an option, I actually did not get accepted to the JV basketball team because as the coach put it, I dribbled like caveman. So I ended up wrestling that's going to
Be my excuse for not knowing much about basketball, but we will, we will come back to the very, very, very, very building blocks of basketball in a moment, but because this is also not explicitly mentioned in your bio. Could you explain for people how you came to retire or how your basketball career came to an end? And then we're going to fill in the in between?
Yeah, yeah. Okay. So you're 13 and it was kind of like
A long drawn out process. But pretty much what happened is it started with a pulmonary embolism. I ended up having a pulmonary embolism. I had chest pains back, pains all kind of different. Pains had a collapse left lung partially for a while and I was still playing. I chalked it up to something else happened. It wasn't definitely anything life-threatening and it definitely wasn't anything that within my season. Let alone my career but I kept playing and we eventually, you know, I got so bad.
Add, I went to the hospital and I had to end up having to get a surgery. I was in the hospital for, you know, close to 2 weeks. It was pretty much like solitary confinement. I didn't really think about it until it was over, but I didn't leave that room for, you know, a good two weeks. I had two tubes, in my chest right here on my ribs, on the side of my ribs, the right below my chest. And I had to drag that around with me after surgery for a few days. Until, you know, it got all the the leakage
Out that took about a week and then after that I was able to recover was able to come back and play basketball and then that next year we found another clot and so pretty much when you're in a situation with with blood clots and stuff like that, if you have a second blood clot it's almost like you're radioactive and so that pretty much was it. We was during All-Star Weekend in Toronto I was reshaping my game.
But three point shooter now, I'm actually in a three-point competition. I'm looking forward to this, my career being revitalized and still being on top of my game. Still being an All-Star, still performing at a highly level. We felt that we had a team good enough to compete for a championship that year, we were second or third in the
East. We're ready to go. We're right there in the
driver's seat and we unfortunately found another clot. It was a blood clot in my lower extremities, that was pretty much the end of the season. I
Continue to try to come back but it just didn't happen with doctors and things like that and teams and question marks. And we found out that it's not that much research, the research has been inconclusive about athletes blood, clots and things like that. And you know, we tried and I did try, I gave it the old College, try to try to come back, but it just proved to be too much. And I have a family, I have children and I had to start thinking about that. It's like the easy tough decision to make.
Make ya know what's right, but I just love basketball so much and I just figured this was this was my time to really prove myself as for the umpteenth time to be an elite player in the world. And, you know, it was just that second act or third act, rather that didn't
happen. And was the cause ultimately whether definitively or just tentatively concluded to be a hereditary disease, or was it? I did test to see if it was
hereditary. It's not I don't have genetic.
Markers. That would mean, I just have reoccurring clots when they said that I was like, okay, well great. Yeah, it just seemed to have come out of nowhere, especially in a sport where, you know, trauma is pretty. You know, you're getting leg trauma on a nightly basis, but it's just something that I had to move past eventually and as tough as it was, I had to move on with my life and, you know, eventually figure out how to move past it and do.
Something
else will likely come back to that at some point. It's just just psychologically philosophically how you've navigated that but yeah, absolutely. As promised, I want to jump back to to Lincoln High School and we are going to at some point. We I'm using the Royal we I'm not, I don't mean to embarrass my Audience by including you in the questions. I might ask about basketball, they're going to be very, very basic, but let me first. Ask as we kind of segue into this, I just want to read part of this paragraph on Wikipedia because
I have something related to ask about it. Alright, so the six foot eleven teenager, we didn't mention that yet six foot eleven teenager, teenager helped Lincoln high capture in this again. Wikipedia, so feel free to factor Kennywood, class 4A State title. As you deliver, 23 points, and 17 rebounds to go along with nine blocks. Here's the paragraph, that really caught my attention, right? Bosh was subsequently named high school, player of the year by basketball, America Powerade Player of the Year in Texas. A first team, All-American by parade McDonald's in EA Sports, a second team, All-American by USA Today and slam.
Magazine and it goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on. And my question is, what was it like, for you at that age, to get that amount of visibility? Yeah, and that amount of suppose, Fame. I mean this is later, you'd be much, much better known. But at that age, I think back to all the terrible decisions that I made in high school. All the terrible decisions I continue to make for a long time. Yeah.
And it was not in any way fueled. I wouldn't have had the opportunities afforded to someone with tremendous visibility. What was that? Like as a student in high school and was there a moment when you were like, oh wow, okay, yeah,
okay, things are going to be different. It's like continuously happen like that. Yeah, the thing with me is I was lucky to find the thing, right? That thing that you love, once I found basketball and that's one of the things that I always encourage not only the youth but people in general,
I find that thing that you love and you know, people can help you get there but only you know and and only you know that feeling whether it's sewing knitting architecture, it could be anything. But for me I found basketball pretty quickly and
In my mind, it was all supposed to happen. One of the interesting questions I get is people ask me. Well, what else would you be doing? That's kind of a hard question to answer because I didn't do anything else. So it was basketball video games and friends and, you know, of course, schoolwork, anything outside of that. It really didn't get too much in my atmosphere. And so, with that said, I was always able to go to practice or go to the gym.
Or even play basketball video games, or read the newspaper and see what the stats are, and who's leading the Eastern Conference, or who's leading the league in scoring rebounding, and things of that nature. I never wanted to do anything else. Basketball was, was it, I grew up watching Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant and of course all the other stars to. But those two guys in particular they were always winning you know as soon as I found out what basketball was I knew who Magic Johnson, you know, was and huge success.
S in the 80s, five championships, and then Michael Jordan is there. I watched him pretty much win, six live and then Kobe Bryant comes along and he was the dude that made it real because he was a teenager doing things that Jordan did. So once that started happening, it became more obsessive, are you familiar with Slam
Magazine? I'm not that I can imagine subject
matter possibly. So, you know, Slam Magazine was pretty much like the basketball.
Magazine and so that was like the internet, you know. So you go get your Slam Magazine and I started putting these posters on my wall of Kevin Garnett Tim Duncan and Kobe Bryant Michael Jordan. All these guys and just obsessively following the game, but they would also put in these articles with the high school talent. It was all basketball, high school, college and pros. And so, for me with all the content I consumed, whether it was movies, whether it was watching Slam Magazine,
These things were supposed to happen. So when they started happening for me, it was more like, okay, cool. I was still in my bubble.
Did you feel in a way? Because of this extreme focus on basketball, the, you had identified it as like the path your path. Yeah. That these things work. Sort of, I do want to say ordained to happen, but you were like if I am in fact destined to be on this path like these are the following markers along that path. And therefore when you show up,
Self and Slam Magazine, you're like, yeah, so mrs. Lamb like, okay, as it was written. Full disclosure, I didn't like the slam article that they made of me, is like, I finally got my half page. I'm like, that's the photo they chose, but, you know, yeah, it was kind of
those markers, you know, getting those markers pretty much from the ninth grade on. And one of the things that was always interesting. Nobody, you fun fact in our yearbook, I wasn't chosen because we had another. We had other good players as well. I wasn't chosen.
Most likely to be in the NBA. So I was never
like Chris, just like you're reading off you
saying USA second team that
still wins a little bit, a mess that one up is okay, USA Today. But with that said that was just
always my mentality. I was not not written off but in my mind it was always how it was supposed to happen and I started growing and then I guess once that notoriety came for me it was like okay yeah about time. Yeah but once
Started getting that notoriety. I wanted to get in the gym more because it was working, you know? So from 9th grade, pretty much on every time I saw success, or if I was in the paper, or if the coach told me good job or something like that, I wanted more, it was always emphasis on doing more work, you know doing more work and you're like the recipe
Works. Let's crank out some more pizza pies with that other Maness is going pretty good. Let's say yeah, let's make
something out of this.
And you know it one of the interesting things and probably one of the things I lit a fire under me was my dad, you know, we weren't, we weren't the poorest kids. I would describe my upbringing as lower middle class but he sat me down or we would drive all the time and ride everywhere. And he told me one day, like I was 12, he said, hey man, I can't pay for college so basketball, you love basketball. That's awesome. You can get a scholarship playing basketball and that's great because I can't pay for college. He kept saying I can't pay for college,
And I thought that was fascinating that you could actually, wow, you could go to college and play basketball, okay? And I started, you know, that began in a session with schools and mascots and learning the colors on top of all the stats and stuff, you know? So once I really started getting into it, I mean it just grew and grew and grew and as it grew. So, did the notoriety.
Let's talk about making those pizza pies. The recipe that was working. I want to try to tease apart, some some pieces of that. So you mentioned a name, Kevin Garnett.
If I'm pronouncing that correctly were there, any players you watched and decided to emulate? I had read that kg was one such player. I don't know if that's true. You can't believe everything you read on the internet, of course. So you can confirm you can confirm or deny. But were there players who you watched early on in your development as a player or as a player who you decided to emulate for one reason or another.
Oh yeah. Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan.
More so cagey. But Tim Duncan of course to because he was right down the street, and his nickname was the big fundamentals and every culture love the way he played the game. So I would play the power forward, which is, you know, it's kind of a Dying position now but it was called the four and it was cool to be a for like
man early 2000s. Late 90s to be a four man. It was
awesome. And so it was just kind of looking for guys that look like me
look like you in terms of physical
Dimension. Cool, stature, or
Or lack
thereof. But you know it's kind of you know growing up playing the game
when you're skinny, when your mass hasn't caught up with your
bones. Yeah, it's kind of you know, people kind of be like you know, you hear all the skinny jokes, you need
something and lift
some weights, like I am lifting weights, you know,
but it was always this preconceived notion or this stigma that you had to have size to play Down.
And once I saw kg
play, when you say down low, what do you mean
closer to the rim? I see, you know. Now the game is more spread, it's more around, the three-point line and the game back, then was more people in the paint. So that's how the game was played closer to the basket, a lot more in physicality. A lot of banging around, you know, and I'm sure a lot of people were worried for me. But, you know, once I saw Kevin it was one and highlight in particular.
Long and skinny. He was a, what All-Star when he was 19 20 years old. He came straight out of high school in 96. No 95. And he was long and skinny like me. And one of the things kind of you're joking and saying how your coach said you handled the ball like a caveman. He can handle the ball. Yeah, that was kind of like a new thing,
not knew all the way, but Old
School, coaches would tell me if you're tall. Don't dribble. That was a part of the game.
Don't put the ball on the floor. I saw him put the ball on the floor and rebound and block shots and play defense. And he had this intensity and tenacity to him. The way he played the game, it was just infectious and and, you know, I was like, yo, I want to do that. And so I would imagine going to the park and imagine these moves and imagine myself doing, you know, we visualize every day man. And once I saw that it was over and I mean he was cool to, he had to have the swag, the
a young guy swag back then after had the look and, you know, had to off-court look in the slam and it was just amazing to me and I just wanted, that's all I wanted to do. I wanted to be hope that's what I wanted to be that right there
kg not only tall, ball handling skills, and a lot of people don't know this. A lot of people don't
know this, but that was actually my nickname. I've never I haven't told anybody that was my Nick called me, kg in high school and some
early, like kg. That's how bad I
wanted to, you know, emulate his game and make it to
NBA people were calling me kg.
All right, so so this is this is the intended, segue into all sorts of terminology that I'm going to need your help with, but no. But but let's, let's, let's talk about. Tim Duncan just for second because the big
fundamentals big fundamentals, man. As
if that's cool name. Now, what did the coach is like about his playing style? You said they all loved his playing style. What were the ingredients that they loved about his playing style? He had that
stoic demeanor. He was never just he brought the
Intensity, and he played hard, but it wasn't, anything extra wasn't flashy the opposite of flashy. But we like, we were speaking of playing down low closer to the basket. His moves that he used were very basic, but devastating sometimes when you're dealing with younger players that are good at the game, the Simplicity can get to them. So they want to show that they're good by doing something fancy and then usually you're messing it up, right? But
He made his career off of establishing position basic stuff establishing position. Getting your move technique, you know, I'm playing within the system and he was Unstoppable. I mean, he was he was MVP of the league and perennial All-Star, you know, and the best for man to ever play the game you had to put him in that same context of you're trying to be successful
and by playing within the system. Do you mean within a coaches?
Prescribed system,
like I said, number of plays like basketball is a fast-moving game and it can look like guys are just out there. Girls are just out there just running around and not really doing much, but there is a method to the madness method to the madness. You're supposed to be in a certain position even if it's within the flow of a game. So you know, when I say system that's what I mean by that if you is at the top he knew exactly what to do. If he's down low, he knew exactly
To do and that added on top of the talent. Yeah. They could have given it to him and say, okay, bring us home big fella and I would have worked, but he added so much longevity on his career by playing within the system in my opinion. And and I mean I made it more dangerous because you have to worry about all of these other things happening, if you're defending him, it's for other people out there that you have to worry about, but then he's hitting you on your body down low, getting the ball and
He's incredibly strong to.
Okay. So this this is this is fun for me as a basketball. Illiterate to begin to sort of piece this together in my own mind because you have the big fundamentals who's playing with within the system, not in a negative sense. But meaning he understands how to play with and synergize with the other elements on the team. Absolutely, he is not doing anything fancy for fancy steak, right? So as we're talking about, before we started recording,
Like Morgan Spurlock. Once told me like, want to get fancy fancy gets broken. Right. That's a good one. I'm really. Yeah, and the go and fancy can work, but you better have the fundamentals first, right? So he's devastating within the system, which is a possibility and then you have kg Kevin Garnett. Who is in some ways violating the expectations of him, not because it's impossible to do so. And just because there isn't much historic, president for somebody his size, also having the dexterity to be a right to handle the
ball really well, especially in the
mid-90s, right?
Which later you were all you would also receive that compliment. Hmm. Quite a lot and I want to go to power forward and said for man. So right before, all right this war this is the for this is where I'm really going to embarrass myself. Here we go. So I'm going to make a confession, I was reading through the research. I was reading about your bio. I was watching videos and I thought to myself this might as well be in Greek. I can't, I can't even begin to imagine what these terms mean. Half of them. So I
Went to this. These people are going to love this. So I went to Wikipedia and I looked up basketball. Yeah, I was like, Hey, like let's just start there and and just to be clear like, hey I do watch basketball. I appreciate, I mean, I'm dying to clearly don't follow it very well but I can appreciate the athleticism. I understand what a three-point shot is. I understand a jump shot is layup. Slam dunk Etc. Some of the some of these terms I actually do know but I realized that I did not know the positions whatsoever and so I just want to read something and then
Then we can dive in. So, this is from the Wikipedia entry on basketball folks. Yes, feel free to laugh. All right, so first of all, if you didn't know, this five players on each side, it turns out. Alright? So the five players on each side, fall into five playing positions. The tallest player is usually the center. Second tallest, and strongest the power forward. A slightly shorter, but more agile player is the small forward in the shortest players are the best ball handlers are the shooting guard. And the point guard, who implement the coaches game plan by managing the execution of offense and defensive.
Is in parentheses player. Positioning informally players may play three on three, two, one, two, one, one. And then I'll just add this because I was like, what really invented in 1891 by canadian-american gym, teacher James nice meth or Naismith, perhaps they Smith and Springfield Massachusetts United States. Basketball is evolved to become one of the world's most popular and widely viewed Sports. The number one 1891. Not that long ago, not that long ago. That's crazy. Yeah, that isn't that is just that's like wheels on luggage what you're like
Really it took us that
long. Yeah. And I started with a peach basket, did you get to that point? So back in the day when they made the game, they had to have something to do in the wintertime in Massachusetts. So they put the peach basket up there and when you make a basket, they had to get a ladder to climb up and take it
out. It wasn't until later that I cut a hole in the peach basket, climbing up and getting it out nice and not as compelling for television. Yeah.
This out. Okay, let me go oh I'll give you two minutes of the game will be 2 to 3 or something like that, you know?
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So, do I just want to kind of run through this again and then get your commentary just as to, how to think about the game. Now, also, understanding the game is not static, right? And how the game is played changes. Especially now, especially now,
so we can take these rules and then we're about to break them, okay? All
right. So it's not to say you have to comment on what I just read because obviously you're much more qualified than the 37 people who put that together. How should we think about the positions of basketball like if I were an alien which might as well be the case?
Yeah, and I'm looking at this, I understand what I said, I understand, you're like, all right. How are the jobs and responsibilities separate it out here. How should we think
about? Well, you know, with those positions with all those positions with that said, it's been
totally. Yeah. Any and each of those positions is numbered there for power
for the one, the two. That's like when you get into it, like all you play the two less when you're super cool. Yeah, I got an alibi. The fact that the shorthand. Yeah. I'm at the 5 to 3. Well, you have your positions but with that
That said the game has changed. So you have one through five. The one is the point guard. The to is the shooting guard 3. Small forward for power forward and the 5 is the center. What has happened in the last few years is that it's become more of a spread game. Because mathematically people, that do data eventually said, hey, let's shoot more threes because these shots we don't like these shots. We like these shots. That's interested the
floor. So is there so is the reason sorry to interrupt but I'm going to do it a lot.
Cassidy is the reason that the three-point shot has become more and more prominent that was driven by kind of like the sabermetrics equivalent came from the data wonks. Not from the player side, there
were some players in particular me and Shane Battier, we would talk about Mel, good friend, Shane Battier. We played together in Miami during the championship years. We would talk about this. We had just got him. He had played his career in Houston and Memphis and Houston. It's a guy by the name of Darrel more. He's the president for the Sixers and
Adelphia right now, big stat guy, Love stats. I mean, a number cruncher, and so they had a certain team and it was a whole culture of stat driven guys, Shane came from that. And so that's where we would kind of talk and we would talk about threes and contested tools and just different shots that you texted to. So if you're within the three-point line, right? Or a contested shot is if you're shooting and I just put my hand up, try and got offend you right trying.
Deny you from actually putting two or three points up and so it turns you're pretty good at denying other
people for sure. Yeah I know I just have you been lately. I've seen this.
So like it came to be that the worst shot in basketball. Is a contested to 15 to 18 19 20 feet away from the god of
just statistically when they look at like the cystic, Lisa
terrible, you know, and so people took that information and said okay hey we need to play faster. We
Need more points, big fella, you need to dribble so now it's you want
everybody. Interesting. So all of a sudden all the same, no, we're not supposed to do is everybody's just do it, you know? And it's like wow you
play the game. Everybody should be able to do the basic fundamentals but now it's opened up to where now, you have guys like, you know, Nicola yogesh probably, never heard of him. He's a big man that plays in Denver.
One of the best players in the league. He's a five man but he handles the ball you know which is a five-man, again the center. Okay. Thank you. So to confuse you more. Yes. But now you have a thing called the point Center, okay?
That's of your big fellow can
bring it down, but the evolution of the game you've had guys like you know, Magic Johnson then LeBron James comes and he's very tall but he can handle the ball and you have been Simmons Giannis. Antetokounmpo these guys who are very tall.
All seven feet, 6827 feet, who back in the day you could say, okay? Hey, you're a for or Center or something else. They've totally transformed the game because they're the guys, bringing it up the floor, and they're getting the team into offense, so they're doing the job of the point guard. So now it's more of the term position lists when we were playing, when I was playing this crazy to say the last decade, early in the 2010s that became kind of one of our words,
To say position 'less disruption, that's the word I'm looking for. So you know basketball has been disrupted what we thought was the game has been cracked open and now it's just become, not just it's become a faster Pace longer shots, more athleticism and not so much the cookie cutter approach to where someone should be on the court because of their size or lack of
size, you know. It makes me wonder about adaptability
A and the adaptability of not just some players. And I'm sure there's also just a selection bias that changes with respect to who who is drafted and how and just the entire feeder system into the MBA, but also coaches even more. So, coaches, like if their entire career has been predicated on a system of a certain type. I mean, I'm not asking you to name names, but if you see in certain coaches, who've been really able to adapt to this new style of playing. Others were like,
I don't know, I don't get it. Well, the ones who say, I don't know, I don't get it. They don't have jobs, right? Yeah, they get weeded out
one of the guys, of course, you know, my ex coach and Erik Spoelstra, he, I remember him. He was having the vision of having that position lists type of basketball in that faster pace, which I didn't like, at the time. Because that would means I would have to play the center as opposed of the power forward and I don't want to do that but just taking advantage.
Image of the speed. Why didn't you want to do that? Because I was banging up against guys bigger than me. So usually in the NBA, my playing weight was about to 35 to 40. If I'm playing the five, I'm banging with guys that are to 8270 and on a weekly nor nightly instances man it gets brutal but you know it did work. As far as, you know, using the speed to get around the bigger Defenders. So essentially playing, I guess if you were a fighter
Going to class up and wait. Yeah. Because you're quicker. You can you know him more? Yeah. Pretty much the philosophy. One of the other guys who have done, I think it done a great job is Gregg, Popovich, he's in San Antonio. He's done a wonderful job because they run the same place. Yeah, they just extend
them. So interesting. Again, can you could you expand on that? Because I remember yeah, watching The Last Dance. Mmm, and watching this segment on the the
Spurs, yeah. And through there, I want to say Playbook, but sort of systematic approach, and some of the debate around that, right? Because there are other players were, like, that's not fun to watch like this. You do a b and c instead because it beats you, yeah, watch your team. Getting beat it. So, can you expand on what you mean by that? So they have the same fundamental system but they expanded
it. So it's kind of
The best analogy I could put to it as you know I don't want to expose their system but everybody knows our system, it's predicated and I might I might be saying this wrong but and but it's two two plays that are the base in their system weak and strong. I can't remember which side of the court. If you're on this side of the court is week on another side of the court is strong, but that's their base of the offense, like I was saying earlier the game a few years ago was being played closer to the rim there.
Nowhere to go, there's no space. Even if you want to get your best player attacking into the paint, if there's eight other people in there, it makes it a little more difficult raffiq Jam traffic jam. So you can take those same plays in basketball and just tell your players. Hey, all these things from the heat days are going to come into my head but pace and space I don't I can't believe I'm saying, I like it. But that's what you know the space was very particular because you want to be able to see what's going on and to attack the
The rim, get closer to the rim for easy buckets. Well, you have to do is, hey, if you're in the paint, I want you to get out there, we're going to run the same place, but as opposed to being six feet away from the basket, get 16, I need you in this 12 to 16 area feet right here because usually Biggs they wanted to keep them. We call them, big's the force in the 5S Biggs, we want to keep you as close to the basket as possible, but that was clogging it up for the smaller, guys, to be able to attack. Yeah.
So you would tell to be able to they want to keep their
bigs close to the basket, not to State the obvious but so that you can receive a pass. Jump up, done beat all rebound, right. Do all the thing yet. All do, all the things. That's all people do.
Yeah. Well if you spread the court, that makes it a little tougher to guard. It takes bodies away from the painted area. You know that area. Yeah, we're the paint. Yes. What we call the part in the paint hard in the
paint. People have wondered what that term? Yeah. Firstly it's my girlfriend told me. I was like
What my God. I never knew that
it's going hard in the paint. Yeah, you can have the same type of offense, which is nobody is Reinventing the wheel here. But what's happened is the the game has become faster and more spread so that you know more offensive opportunities can
happen to you, have preemptively, develop ball handling skills which lo and behold now are this huge asset. Yeah, as the game of olives.
But you get put into Center where you're basically running into freight trains. Oh, it was a
part of my whole career. It
would happen in Toronto a bad thing. Yeah. But but but initially you're like, I don't want to do. I do now again, based on just the, the homework that I've done. I mean, you seem to be also very, very well known as a rebounder and one of the questions that comes to mind for me is if
Suddenly The Bigs. So the term, hmm, our expanded out further away from the basket. Does that not make it harder for you to utilize one of your superpowers, with what, in a ways you
there? There are certain things that do get taken away in our case. It was a little easier to make that sacrifice because we had Dwayne and Wade, and LeBron. So, if it's saying, hey, Chris, we need you to get out the paint and spread the floor. Yeah. Yeah.
Offensive rebounding. Opportunities are going to sing quite a bit but it's better if we get those guys attacking. Yep. So you need to be out here and one of the things that kind of developed was having a more sound defense is okay. Instead of crashing the boards just get back. Yeah. Because you know the defense especially you know if the defense gets the rebound now they're on offense. If they're running they're a fast team you want to mitigate their opportunities.
He's for easy baskets. So you know, and that's that can be a statue, which I'm pretty sure we dug up that we did take up that stat. What's the percentage of you get in an offensive rebound versus not getting a stop? Because of that
it's a question for you on the stats. And maybe this is getting too, too, too nerdy. But do all the teams have equal access to data and it's just a matter of analyzing it more effectively. Yeah. Oh we
can go on nba.com and get all the stats right now. That's all
Everybody has it's an open
book, right? It's an open, it wasn't like that before and the way you crunch, those numbers is not an open book, so everybody gets the data but that's all it is is just that is just telling you what happened the last game or over the course of the game. It's on the teams to kind of take that and utilize it if they want to. Now some people do over, do it, in my opinion, you can kind of get some people like yeah, you know. So we want to play. Okay, got
entire shoes, with the leather jacket. First
But there's still, you know, in my, you know in my case is still some fundamentals to the game. That you know you can't really get
around you mentioned, Erik Spoelstra. I'm getting the pronunciation, uh, our mutual, friend, Ryan holiday, giving me a bullet, which was related to books, that Eric had given you. What books did he give you? That come to mind.
He would give books every Christmas to the team so they were quite a few quite a few and I read all of Miles. Probably the only do
Read all of them, it was even kind of funny because one time we were cleaning out their lockers and our lockers and said, you know, some I won't name who, but somebody grab the book for they're like, oh man. Spoke thanks for this Christmas gifts, that this in June blowing dust off of it, you know?
But when we
first met, I had just signed to Miami and I was always reading. I will always been an Avid Reader since I was a kid and I just fell into reading books. I would always read
Books, especially on the road before naps before games. That was my thing. And he knew that about me. He had heard that about me him being a good coach. I'm gonna get in this book. I heard he's a reader he got me outliers by Gladwell. I said okay, you know he gave it to me and I took it. Oh that's cool. I read that
book and he was he
just kind of looked at me like
what and then ever since then he
would I guess I hope that I pushed him to do.
More research in his book buying but yet he would he would get us books every Christmas
where there any of that, stood out to you? One in particular was
grit because he used that term all the time, the author slipping my
name's Sheila Duckworth, Angela,
Duckworth. And you know, he got us that book and he would always use these phrases. And so grit was a huge, huge, huge word that he used that. I'm sure he still uses to this day, but that book in particular, he bought for the team. And I read that when I do remember that,
When and in this, another one that's slipping my mind, but I remember specifically we were having a conversation and it wasn't an easy conversation. Usually, when you're a coach, you're having tough conversations 24/7, which you players, because everybody wants the ball, I was having one of those conversations like, hey, give me the ball, you
know?
And it was one, Catherine particular, that was saying, push versus pull some people, you have to push some people, you have to
Another chapter that said, you have to have an open mind set or a close. My said, you don't want to close my set. You want an open mindset, the book will come to me in a minute. I had to like, you know, challenge him on having an open mind. Ha ha, ha.
Hey, give me the ball. Yeah, have an open mindset. Coach, you know? And I always love that one because it's the book that he gave us and I had to use it, you know, to kind of try to get my way.
But I always I want to say is good to great but that's probably not the one but those good to great. Just one of them those books in particular. And I mean, like, I say, throughout the whole time throughout the whole stent in Miami, he, you know, he gifted us books and I'm pretty sure he gifted us the obstacle is the way. Yeah. Want to say he did, I'm pretty pretty sure but, you know, I just thought it was fascinating, just a coach taking the time to think of his teammates and
Him food for thought, some think about, and I always enjoyed that and I would read it, and I felt like I was getting inside his mind and in the minds of others, reading these passages and kind of taken, you know, and interpreting it for myself, right before the game. Yeah, it was
always great. Well, I'll see you would read right before right before playing. Oh yeah,
yeah, I would it was funny Pat Riley. He told me you like cream.
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar he was sit there and read the whole time in a couple. My young players when I was old grizzled vet, they told me like I would just sit there reading and you know,
I'm oblivious to this stuff. I'm just getting my mind. Right. You know,
this was our red because this was
my
relaxing time because it's about to get
hectic. Yes, you're not reading like Black Hawk Down, you're in maybe, maybe I might. Yeah. But if I'm reading Black Hawk Down, it's the playoffs. Yeah.
You know, it's winning time.
Uh, but you know, I always try to give myself that peace of mind. It was like, I felt like it was my time and granted, we're in the locker room, it's media everywhere. And people, it's like the buzz of an NBA game about to start. And I was sit there. And they told me, man when you close that books. All right, he's ready. Let's go. Yeah, yeah, would read and all the way up until Coast is about to start talking. It's like all right, cool. Let's uh, let's go and do it.
Are there any books that you've reread multiple times that?
That come to mind. I mean, or was it always a new book that you would read?
I always read a new book, but the book that I read all the time, which you, I know that you're a connoisseur of Japanese culture is the way in the power he heard of that. But no, so it's a book called The Way in the power I had a buddy of mine who was a Kempo black belt many times over he gifted me that book, it pretty much, it was breaking down the Way of the Samurai.
Moving. It was two books into one, the way and the power strategies, the powers more. So like strategies for a master distancing confusion, how to handle conflict things like that, the way is more so shaping the body and shaping the mind to become a samurai. So the exercise is that one has to do to get to the point to start Mastery before. You can even think about it, you know, you need to be here, you know.
No, one of the passages said, you have to look successful, you want to be able to look good. So I took all these principles and apply them to basketball. So what they meant by looking good with saying, hey shirt, tucked in regulation, everything is good to go. My shoes are tied. I don't have to worry about them because I have this not that they won't come loose. So I'm not worried about my shoes while I'm playing. It also says you know exercise must be vigorous people need to tell so you have that.
Strong Spirit. You know when you're showing up before you even play my muscle, definition is good. I'm ready to play because we've been working hard. Hmm. We want to feel that, you know, it's filling the spirit before you even start playing the game working on your key things like that. Huh? Yeah. The way in the power the way in the power I think you'd enjoy cool check it out
cool town and it's got Japanese you know I'm into it. They don't
translate the word. So for instance, one of the principles,
Is called motion that really resonated? Like no, I don't know. Mind, he'll mind. So you attack with no mind. I don't think about everything we've done all the studying. I filled myself with my opponent and I'm attacking with no mind that because I've done all the
training that is super cool. That's you know that mission. Yes. So you read that be like oh yeah yeah whooshing, no mind. Where are this? This this character Shin, which is also called
For, oh yeah, is is also used for heart. But it's like Spirit heart and mind all wrapped into once culturally super interesting. Yeah, it's very fast and I mean, they,
they don't change. They do not translate because some of them have no translation, right? Yeah. So they have the like motion, for instance, it's called motion. Then they do English, but the title, the principal is all Japanese.
See you mentioned, the not having the right knots. You're not worried about your shoes. I might be mr. Tribbey
Doing this. I don't think I am. But even though I know very little about most sports, I'm fascinated by consistent top performers my because it's like, once you're lucky twice, you're good, like, for a decade. Okay, yeah, there. There there is some method. And I recall reading this story about John Wooden, famed guess? UCLA coach book to you. And I recall reading a story, I'm sure I'm going to get the details wrong but when he
Meet a bunch of new players, sit down and he'd walk them through tying their shoes and and they'd be like, why does this matter? And if you like little things matter because if you mess this up, you're going to get irritated. Yeah. And you're going to get a blister and then you're not gonna be able to move properly and that's going to cost you points and that's going to cost you the game. And I was like, oh so good, so good. Pyramid of
Success, Pyramid of Success. Here are made of success by John wouldn't you can check that one out.
That pretty much describes that. So he had a Pyramid of Success and that's one of the myths are stories or whatever. They pretty much owned the 60s and 70s, you know, UCLA basketball. They built it to what it is, you know, historically today. And not only did he get the best players and great players Abdul-Jabbar being one of them, he had the best teams and coming into play for a great coach like that. It's like okay first day of practice.
I can't wait where're, we gonna do and he's showing them how to put on their socks and shoes purple. You know, practically in perfectly and that was the first day of practice.
So, you know, just imagining the faces. Could you imagine that laughs? Are we gonna run? This is gonna be the bettin. And, you know, it's and and if you readers and actual
pyramids that he built and constructed and tying shoes and socks was at the very bottom of the Pyramid of Success. So
And he do this. Every year, every year, that would be the first thing that they would go over. And then they would build on top of
that. And, you know, he was testing and tracking and keeping notes, it's not accidental that, that ended up at the bottom of the pair, of course, of course. But that makes sense, right? And yeah, if you get a blister, you know, especially back in those days. Everybody's playing in Chuck Taylors of, that's important. Yeah, that's important, man. You've got a hey,
let's, this is important stuff. And, you know, like I was alluding to earlier,
That's the challenge with younger players, right? They want to go right to being the master doing. The things that, you know, you think that a master is supposed to be doing when we need to do this first. The basic basic fundamentals. That way when it's winning time, we can be healthy. It's kind of like many sayings out there but you have a bit in the horse in the shoe if
that nail isn't right. Then the
horse, you know, it's all these catastrophic events that could possibly follow. If this one basic thing is not,
Correct. You've spent a lot of time as a leader with other leaders, whether players iconic players, coaches whole broad spectrum, are there any particular lessons or stories related to leadership that stick out to you? The things you saw are absorbed from from anyone. In
particular, my high school, coach Leonard Bishop, he talked to me one time and as much as I became
More social later in life. This is me a 17 years old 611. Ha, ha. All the accolades are possible. And they can possibly come. He called me in his office and he told me, you don't have to be loud to be a leader. You can lead by example and you know, we always hear the thing lead. By example, right, you hear that all the time. What did that even mean, right?
and he told me, he explained it to me, he said, you know, you
Can lead by putting your work in being on time, being dressed and ready to go. When it's time to practice staying after practice, your teammates, are watching you all the time.
So, if you do these things and lead by example, never given up, never quitting playing hard. These are the things that could be infectious. You don't have to be the guy given the win one for the Gipper speech. You can go out there and you can be yourself and that was so comforting. I remember that conversation. We were having in his office and I said, wow, okay, that gave me so much more confidence because I could be myself. Because on the court, I'm gonna yell and scream and do all that stuff all day. I'm not, I wasn't always the player.
R2 always talk during the game at that age. But if it's gettin hype and screaming and yelling, I was basketball, was always my release to do that. It was comforting to know. I could be myself and still bring the leadership qualities to that team. And you know that always stuck with
me. What are some of the things that people don't know or don't see that you think are important about some of the, the big names. You spent time around whether that new you can take your
Could be, anybody could be could be a player, could be a coach could be an owner could be anyone at all somebody not on that list because people see you on TV. Yeah, maybe they followed you for a long time and they maybe they think they know what makes you you and they might have a few things, right? But they probably have a whole lot of things wrong and that would also, I assume be true for many of these big names that you've spent time around. Are there any particular ingredients or special aspects of some of these folks that come
To mind that you think are maybe less appreciated or less obvious to
people, one being human humanizing. The people that can kind of Get Lost in Translation when you're on TV. So, remembering that there's a human element. These are people with families and feelings, and emotions. And on top of that, I think the work best that, that is being put in, to anybody who's Elite at their craft or even professional at their craft. I mean,
Is it a ridiculous amount of work that's put into even be in the league that you know and right
let alone on the short list of people know and even on a short list
van, they're working hard, you know? And I don't know like the the first thing that came to mind and you said that was like you ever was by say you ever watch basketball game. Well,
I have watched basketball, I have, you have watched basketball. So have you watched that said, I understood all the finer details.
But so, whoever watched it when they say, Okay, they've got two days off into their
Game. Yes, that is not true. Yeah, right, not true. Practice treatment appearances. The professional aspect that. It takes to be able to perform because usually people just see you on TV. You see you doing your thing, okay? Two days off. No, we do not have two days off. There are no such thing as weekends. There's a weekend. Maybe we play at eight o'clock as opposed to 7:30 like usual. That was the only cursor for me that let me know the weekend.
Yeah. So just
trying to remember and and you know it's really for all people who are good at what they do. If you admire that person, remember that there's a human element. That's a human like probably going through it or maybe not or just whatever comes with life. They're dealing with it and the tremendous amount of work and focus that it takes to be able to do that. You know, to be able to say hey I'm I need to put this to the side to be able to perform
Happened. Many times in my career you know you got a funerals, you have things, you have to fight through and then you have to play and you're still expected to win, you know? So just remembering those those things just remembering that it when you watching your favorite player or your favorite author or favorite engineer, whatever that is the tremendous amount of work and dedication that it takes to get to that level. That's what I would like people to really remember and understand.
I have watched, maybe not not enough basketball by have
I've watched basketball and in fact, at one point, not to say I ever got particularly good at it, but when I was working on a book called The 4-Hour, Chef, which is very confusingly. Actually, about accelerated learning, which might explain why there's so much confusion on the part of readers also, but there's a section looking at free throws and basketball, okay? And so I actually, practiced quite a bit with the help of a few people sort of technicians who were trying to help me understand basic principles.
Yeah.
and part of the reason for that, is that I have been
just dazzled by say three-point shots. Hmm. Because as a someone built like a small Flinstones character myself, right? I watch people who are jumping over the rim and Performing these incredible Feats of athleticism. I'm like well I can't even imagine myself doing that. Like the physics are just not there right now, my bones never caught up with my mass. Right is the problem. It's the other way around and plus my vertical jumps like somewhere between half
Inch and an inch at best. So, so those are things, I just can't even imagine myself doing. And I think people might be, I'm not saying that this is everyone, but people might be inclined to say, well, 611 rights. Like, of course, you can slam a basketball, but it's a lot harder to use that justification, when it's three point shot. Mmm, right. It's like no, actually, actually, like you short guy? Yeah. Tim, that's you. I'm talking to you. You should technically, like, you have the physical capability of doing, huh?
I would just love to hear, and this might be getting too into the weeds, but how you improved your three-point shots, mmm, because it's not just repetition. In the sense, like, you can make the same mistake over and over, and over again. And I've read about you doing video, review, watching, games, six to eight times and so on. So I know that you are methodical about reviewing your own performance, but how did you improve something like a three-point
shot?
I didn't start shooting threes consistently until about my third year in Miami second and third year Miami I shot them in Toronto a little bit but like I said, is still wasn't. We were talking about the game earlier. It wasn't that widely accepted in the game. Big Man, shooting threes, handful of them. Now you have a handful of that, don't we got to Miami and you know, my position or my responsibilities changed. So I wasn't getting the ball.
All closer to the basket anymore. That was my job in Toronto, to get the ball as close to the basket as possible. That's what we function. I was pretty good at it and then the team would go from there and we would distribute and kind of Base our game off of, I guess my success or lack of success down low. I was telling you earlier that in Miami, I had to get out the way. Yeah. That was my sacrifice in particular with that team so that LeBron and D could penetrate and get into the paint and
Do what they're best in the world at doing, as we continue to play. I had Coachman men, Shane Battier. We would talk all the time about it but then I had a, you know, have discussions with coaches as well. And somebody says, someone days at a man, just take a step back, take one step
back, shoot the same shot.
Just take a step back because I was always an avid worker on my jump shot. I was pretty good. I was Lethal for mid-range that was my thing. I always worked on it and worked on it so it's the
Hundreds of thousands or millions of reps that I have shooting the ball. I know, I have a touch anyway, it was just extending the range, so it's kind of one of those things that if you're good, short range and mid-range practice your long-range, you can be pretty good too, but getting those fundamentals of the, you know, the shooting motion arm.
Snapping your wrist following through balance, all these different fundamentals that you learned and what goes into a great shooter going and seeking that advice learning from other Shooters, always kind of taking in information, but relying on my own information I think you have to have a good foundation and what you've done already by yourself, even if it's in the Weezer in the dark and then you have, hopefully someone that can refine what you already.
Have or say something to you to say? Amen take a step back, you can shoot threes and then I started shooting threes and then as I became more consistent you know I found more success in this funny to watch the game now because I'm like man I could still be playing, you know, 37 I saw myself playing into my, you know, 3738 and I started practicing more threes because I saw where the game was going. I said okay yeah, they're shooting was more threes. Me and Shane have talked about this three is more than two. Okay, I'm gonna start shooting
Or threes and that was my last year in the league. I had a higher frequency of 3 point shots and you know, I was seeing some success so that was exciting but that was like the part of the my career that I never really got to crack open. Yeah,
yeah. With three pointers. When you're watching other players, make three-point shots are their Styles dramatically different or are the good 3-point shooters? Do they all have the same
ingredients? I think there's the same ingredients. I mean you're always going to get different flavors but it's the same.
To me, it's always followed through one fluid motion and good balance. If you have those things, you can shoot the ball and I always kind of funny you learn to shoot free throws. I would always tell people, I give my friends pointers so I have a few buddies that you know, their producers and songwriters, they always play. Yeah, in rec league games, I won't give away your sauce do. Don't worry, I've away your position but I would I just give them like pointers and say you know like hey man can you help me with my shot and I just look at him shoot.
A couple times and give them Corrections and then they see instant success, you know, but that's just, you know, elbow and follow through one fluid motion. Boom. Do you have a better? You just wanted to go straight and it's, you know, you can get
super deep into it. You're
nectary and all that stuff, but that's when you see, it's good to get into the fundamentals of where the ball is supposed to go. And how you're supposed to hold it. But one of the things that we always do is just start with
Hand shooting. I'll know if they had you doing that right under the basket. Yeah, all day. Get a lot of repetitions than that build that muscle memory. And then you can start stepping back as you get better.
Yeah. The thing that kind of blew my mind also which I hadn't thought about at all. Because why would I hadn't had any exposure was? I was just missing. Missing missing. I was like over 20, even got a close distance. One coach blanking on this name, I want to say is richt orbit but he
He didn't eye dominance test and he's like, oh, you're right-handed, but your Left-Eye dominant he's I guess shift it like an inch over and then the whole thing change that's like, wow, wow, wow, that's a thing. Yeah, it's pretty good. And well, maybe someday I'll pick up a basketball again and have to confiscate all phones and cameras first. So be critical to myself. Oh dear. I ties unit this. What did it feel like going from and why did you go from?
Toronto to Miami. Yeah, because like, you were King of the Hill.
Yes, mr. Canada.
Yeah, you're mr. Mr. Kennedy.
Yeah. You know it was it was a tough decision. I loved Toronto in Toronto, loved me and it was great just to be able to compete and put a city or country on your back and just hope for the best and just go out there and work hard every day. And, you know, I just felt, you know, like a pillar of the community I wanted to do is so bad.
Ad for Toronto. You eventually get to a point in your career where you have to make a choice. And I went to, you know, I talked to many people, it was a dilemma, I didn't know what to do and if you're familiar with popular culture or maybe not that year in 2010, there was a I was like the first mega free agent. Everybody who's free agency was about eight or nine free agents. Just like okay, they're the best eight or nine, guys, in the world right now, they're ready.
To go things can and will dramatically change. That was the atmosphere that was coming and I knew that was coming and I had tried everything. I tried everything in Toronto, I tried to recruit. I tried to push myself push, my team and, and, you know, we weren't even scratching the surface and one of the tough things, dealing with it is seeing the early success of my peers. I wanted to win, I've always wanted to win, and I've always wanted to put in the work to be able to do that and compete and
Hopefully gang glory, in that way, I talk to a lot of older players and about what to do about what to do and older gentleman as well. And the thing that I kept hearing was that you want to play on the stage, man. It's about going forward, it's about competing for a championship. You want to play on that stage. That's the phrase that stuck with me and I had an opportunity to play with two other great players. And we
Known each other since we were teenagers. I've been knowing Brian since we were 16, 17 years old. I knew Dwayne since we were 19, 20 years old and it just fit. And it was, it was a possibility to be like my heroes. I told you I realized Jordan and Kobe and it was right there to be able but calling happened. And I wanted to play on that stage that I was talking about. Just telling him from this, I was a little kid. I was watching. Michael Jordan. That's like
I distinctly remember and even, you know the moment I found out about basketball was because Michael Jordan is playing on TV all the time. I mean even we would go to Dayton Ohio. My dad, he drivers is crazy 18 hours and a single cab pickup truck. 84 F-150, man, Ouija drivers from Dallas to Dayton and drop us off in like every summer I've 91 92 93 for sure. The night that we got to my
House. The Bulls will be playing and is winning time. You know, I was in the finals and I understood after a while, you know, after they get the trophy I'm like, oh wow, what is? This is amazing. And I wanted to do that man. And you know, I couldn't even tell you what happened, the rest of that summer. I couldn't tell you what happened that night. I couldn't even tell you who's around the TV. I know I was and I was just taking it all in and every year I would watch it and watch it and watch it. And that's all I wanted to do, you know, aspire to do and and at that time,
Time that situation was right there in front of me. It was right there in front of me to take so I took it.
Yeah. And that was only a chance. You know. It's
just a this is just an opportunity not to even say that you're going to have success but this is your best chance to go for that right
now, did you feel a hundred percent confident when you made that decision and in the weeks and months following or were there any points for you're like,
man, I hear there's always gonna be those points or I
don't know, I don't know. Yeah.
Those points, you get to those points but I had gotten used to that by then. And you know, for whoever's listening sometimes it's just going to be like that. You're supposed to feel it, right? You're supposed to is a major leap of faith. Yeah. And if you're making that leap of faith, yeah, there will be some questions, but I always that was part of my mental training like that or just questions. That's okay. Let's let's just keep going forward. Logically, it makes sense is sound. And then, yeah, when the emotions come in and
Yeah, you get those feelings. Like I don't know if I can do this and we came together in such a way to where it was explosive and pretty Infamous you know so that comes into it as well. Yeah you start having Self Doubt and that's one of the things we eventually got to with talking with the heat as self-doubt is going to come and doesn't make you any less of a competitor or a person. It's just a part of the
process. Yeah. Yeah. I'm still I'm still glad you're mentioning that I remember not too long ago.
Talking to really not on the podcast. This is a private conversation, but an extremely famous investor who from the outside looking and I'm like, okay, this guy's balls are bigger than my house. Like, I don't know how this guy, I don't know how he does, what he does. Like, I would not get a second of sleep, it's just the risks that I perceive him as taking. Yeah. And we're talking about self-doubt and second-guessing and he goes, oh, just to be clear. He's like, no matter what you're going to.
To have some regret. He's like, if you buy something and it does really well. You're going to kick yourself for not having bought enough. Why didn't I buy enough if you buy something and it does really poorly. You be like, why did I invest in that? He's like, he's like, no either way. He's like, you're gonna have a second guess is he's like just accept that. It's like part of the game and I was like, oh, it was actually very stressed relating. I was like, oh yeah, oh yeah, something's wrong with
them. Yeah. Or they think something's wrong with the situation.
Pull out. Yeah and say hey Nana always kind of think of one of my favorite books was I blink blink cath by Gladwell and you know just talking about the gut decision, trusting your gut, then we talk ourselves out of it. Yeah. I knew the answer. Yeah, we talk ourselves out. Yeah. Talking yourself out of it. That's a part of it. It's going to happen. But, you know, just stay with it. Stay with what you, you know, said you were going to do what you're meant to do and sometimes self-doubt comes you just gotta be like shit.
H-hold on. We're working now and it's ok to dismiss that voice.
Yeah. Doesn't doesn't mean you're uniquely fly. It doesn't that mean that at all, when you were reviewing footage of yourself, could you give an example of if one comes to mind of when you did that? And then once again, like, how do you watch, like, what are you looking for on? What are you seeing? Because someone was asking me as I Was preparing for this, like, we'll have you watched basketball. And I said, I think I've seen
Basketball. I'm not sure I've watched it because for instance, I mean, there are sports. I know a lot more about, like, wrestling or boxing, or these things, and I can watch, and I see things that some of my friends won't see just because I know the technical sure underpinnings. Absolutely. So when you're watching footage, if you can think of any examples of reviewing your own footage, why did you look at it? And then what were you looking for? What types of things? Did you pick out? I
think naturally, every player will start.
On offense. They want to watch themselves on offense and it can easily turn into just a highlight
tape, the Instagram of your own mind, you know, your
highlight typing, I would look for mistakes I got to the point where I was looking for
mistakes. Did you do that? Consistently did it start at a particular point was it always
no, not always, like I said, highlight tape, it started off as highlight tape so you just want to see yourself doing good but then you get to a point to where you're looking for the inconsistencies or
If there was a game, certain particular game that you were unsuccessful, I'm looking at the whole game to see what exactly why what happened what I can do to get better. What is this team doing? They might have had some success against me, defending me. So what one of the things I would look for? I would look is so hard to describe, but I would look for everything. All in, once you get to the point where you're looking for everything but the main main main things were defense and offense. My
Positioning on offense. I would always look at my teammates characteristics, seeing what they're doing, see there with the scouting report on them is they might do a certain particular move every single time in this play and you have to watch film to know that it would help build continuity. And we talked about it too. Like when you're doing that I want you to zigged instead of zagged, you know, and it's having those
discussions, you watch the video with coaches with
teammates, everything by myself, with the team.
Mmmmm we always started practice with half an hour of film. You did. Yeah. 45 to an hour of SPO felt long-winded but yeah we would know as a game footage. Mmm. Yeah. Pretty much usually the night before looking at all the mistakes. Hmm. And then I developed the habit of going home and dissecting other players. So in particular was Dirk Nowitzki, three-point shooter, 7 feet.
Late 90s early 2000s. This is when it was you know he was shooting threes back when you know it was very taboo I guess for a big to be doing all that stuff but he revolutionized the game in that aspect we lost against them in the 2011 finals. Terrible terrible tragedy right but one thing is inspired me to do. He did these certain particular moves within the system that worst you couldn't stop it and I had to figure out what it was he was doing. So I watched
A tremendous amount of film on him in particular, but what happened in our losing effort? But what happened was? You start seeing like you're saying you start seeing other things. So what I started doing was, I started compartmentalizing the film. And I would say, okay, I'm going to watch what Atlanta or I'm going to watch with the Lakers are doing on offense. It became this thing of, okay, I've got my offensive system down, I know my game now, I will watch film on the other team. I
To get inside the mind of the other team, I want to know, all their plays. I want to know their best players, best moves. So we can take all those things away. So that's what it became. I was study to take the top two high percentage, things away from a team or
person. I have to imagine also that with that amount of footage and also just that amount of time on the court practicing playing that, you're almost certainly absorbing a lot more than you're conscious.
We aware of, for sure, you know what I mean?
Sure, absolutely. And and what it's what starts happening is, not that it happens on tap but you can start anticipating what's going to happen on the court. Hmm. So things will just come to. You be like I'm going to run over here because I'm going to be wide open or I'm going to crash the boards because I'm going to get a dunk huh and it happens, you know, it's crazy but you know the more it just becomes a part of you the more that you watch it and I was having low second guesses and doubts and stuff to other.
Week. I was talking with my buddy and I said, man I should have could have done more man, he said okay stop if you watch more films than anybody I know because you know, film is more of a thing of football terms. Yeah. So it's kind of like the quarterback in football. They have to watch a tremendous amount of film because they have to, is really anticipation. Yeah, they have to anticipate. They have to look where they're looking and say, okay, this is what they're doing. If you watch enough film, you'll pick up on people's Tendencies. And you know what they're about to do before they do it, because
Cuz he's leaning a little, those subconscious things that you pick up. I'll Telegraph. You know, like I say you would be surprised how much success you have as a Defender, if you take the best move away. Yeah, every day I watch film whether it's the team or the player like, okay, take away that for him, he goes, right, every single time. He's got to go left today, and if he scores 30 points, going left, hey, I'm a tip my hat to him, but percentage, that's where we would mess with the data. Yeah, we would play with the numbers. We twist the numbers a little bit.
Tim Wise, an individual wise, you develop a repetition for knowing the team's plays. That's, that's the biggest thing, right? You just
visits got a really mess with
people. It does, you know, is this two minutes in the fourth quarter and they call a play? It's like, he's going right there. A lot of people look at LeBron be like oh my God, you know these were the discussions we were having. Yeah every day LeBron James, Shane, Battier Ray Allen, Dwyane, Wade, Rashard Lewis myself, we're talking about I guess a master class every day and how to
Stop people. Learn, you know, how to get Cosette take away. One leg of the stool, you know, if they beat us with two legs, then hey, man, that's a good job but probably not. Yeah,
yeah, it's the footage is so important in the fight game to whether a boxing or MMA. Same story also, because I guess like many sports like if you have person a versus person b and a beats B and B beats. See, it doesn't automatically mean that a is going to be 2 for
sure matchup. Yes.
And you know, and styles and another component to that is you might play a team like San Antonio which we were duking it out with them for a couple years and they'll run certain plays against certain teams. They have certain set plays against you that they think are successful and you have to crack those codes and figure that out on top of the individual. Tendencies for a Manu Ginobili. For Tony Parker for Tim, Duncan for Danny Green, you know, you have to, you have to know
Are individual Tendencies on top of the team Tennessee. So it can get. It
can get pretty deep, you know, you like you're saying getting the weeds. You can be in the weeds. Yeah, yeah. Manu is such a sweet guy, does that? Yeah, he's close to here.
Lives, nearby Hill. Don't go on YouTube as
well. It's definitely nice,
guys. Well, you know, he's elbowed me in the face
a few times. So you know how the nice guy, you know? Yeah. Gentlemanly and he's a hell of a competitor.
Yeah, let's talk about letters to a young athlete. This is your new book. Mmm.
Why
books are hard books are hard? Yeah, books are
hard. You know, how did this come about?
So I was, I was just in a place, I got the news, the unexpected news that I wouldn't be playing anymore and and I was just kind of in a place and I was just not wandering around but reshuffling the deck. Yeah. You know, that's a great way to put it. Getting used to being a father in the household. Being a husband. In the household all the time at you. I never knew
How much time that I had given a basketball? People think things are easy implicit because she's write a book. I remember people are saying you should write a book. What am I going to write about? I didn't even know what to even think about, but I just put it to the side and really didn't think too much of it. But always being an avid reader, I guess it was somewhere in the back of my mind. I continued to think about it and I was in a period whether I liked it or not of reflecting I had never reflected on my career.
You're
too busy, you ready? Yeah. You're
just in it, you're too busy playing and going to the next thing and going from A to Z and I find myself and, you know, just reflecting on the journey and how that child from Hutchins. Texas was able to actually jump from lily pad to Lily Pad and make it to the NBA and actually be successful and thinking about those who helped me along my path and all the coaches who said the wise words to me, friends, who help me out my family, of course, that help me out my wife.
And I was in deep reflection and then, you know, the opportunity came, we just kept talking about it, kept talking about it, I have agents and they were like, yeah man, just keep talking about, you'll think about it and you know, you should meet Ryan. We should meet Ryan holidays. Oh yeah, I've read a few of his books, man. That's cool. So he meant right down the street here in Austin and we hit it off. We had like a three-hour lunch. Just sitting talking and, you know, shooting a shit and we had a great time and and then I said, okay great, let's figure this out.
And there's no reason to talk to anybody else. He was the first person that we interviewed to help us out. And from, then on, we just were bouncing ideas, it took months and months and months just to even figure out, you know, what are we going to write about? But sitting there and being open to thinking of myself in that position of not being a player and thinking of what would be the book that I wanted to read before a game, if I were
A younger player today. So, this is kind of that book that I wanted to read. And, you know, one of the, my favorite Parts about books like that is that they always translated, you know, whether that was whether you're an athlete, whether you're a CEO, a leader or a follower, a librarian, a teacher, we wanted to
Have those basic principles that apply to everything, whether you're a young athlete or hold athlete. Yeah, we wanted to have those lessons from myself that have actually helped me in worked and you know, from people that I admire tools that have gotten them through challenges. I think that's the biggest thing. They're challenges every day. Everybody goes through challenges and this is a book to give you those tools to hopefully rise to the occasion when it comes.
Yeah.
Who are some of the people? You admire? Whose advice, you have featured in the book.
SPO of course. Erik Spoelstra is in there. I'm a coach Leonard Bishop, we talk about some things like that. One of, one of my good friends is Candace. Parker. She's in, you know Chicago now getting ready for her season but she's such a tremendous athlete and a person. And we were having a particular discussion one time just about and really just a female player.
You have to go through. We were in Beijing and the whole female team after winning Squad. They have to go to their respective places to go start the season. Not in the state's not home, they're going to Russia.
You're going to Spain from Beijing China and they just finished playing a whole
summer or they'll finish the season in WNBA and then go right back to us. So they were summer, spring fall winter, they're playing around and they don't even get the credit for that that
Was just so inspiring to hear because you know it's like a leak and this man you man you really it just doesn't stop it never stops, I know it doesn't stop for me and I know how I feel. How do you, you know, how do you feel and just kind of you know hearing her story and how she gets through that? She I don't think she does it anymore. I don't think she plays in Europe anymore but when she was just, you know, hearing those stories and how to actually get through that and be successful and still be the MVP and still compete for a championship.
Chip in both leagues, that was tremendous. And of course, Pat Riley, he's always been a great motivator and Mentor for me and we had a discussion with him kind of jumping back to the book thing. He he was one of those encouragers to he's write a book and he said yeah you don't have to think about it now but
Just think about it. You know, this is what I did when I wrote my book, The Winner within I was going through this. And yes, a good thing. You should you should check it out. And, you know, this is the Casual lunch in Malibu, you know, I really didn't think anything of it, but he's always been, you know, that person to really be an example. And, you know, he's one of my heroes and, you know, you read the forward to is so cool. Yeah, it's really amazing turns out. He's a like a huge Rider. He, he empathize with me quite a bit because
Is career like mine, whether it was because of other people's opinion or professionally being able to withstand the athleticism, that the the new league was coming or whatever his career, just abruptly ended, just like mine. And you know, he is a writer as well. And he told me about his writing experiences and, you know, he's got a few books out there and he's even wrote screenplays and stuff like that. So it gave me the openness to accept other things and say well, okay,
Okay, just
get the wheels turning.
Well, if I were to write a book, what would it be about? And, you know, it two and a half year process, man
for, you know, two and a half years later, two and a
half years, but going and looking within to try and find those stories and those principles to what has made me
me. Hmm. He mentioned, Pat a few times. What do you think has super powers or
superpowers motivation? Yeah, and Excellence. So a lot of people try to
be motivating. Yeah.
Right? That's what. So he's good at it. He's good at it. Why is he good at it?
Well,
yeah, the experience, yeah. Like, what's the experience?
He's got the experience I think when you're in team sports for so long and you've seen every level whether that's good or bad. Yeah. And everything in between, I think you can kind of start collect things that work and things that don't work. And, you know, in the NBA you're around each other every day.
And I'm sure there have been plenty of things that he said that didn't work.
This, get left on The Cutting Room floor, like crickets, okay, bringing the cuts that one from the number that one. Yeah, they did. They didn't
care for that one in practice so well, you know, move on from it, but he's an extensive note-taker. I know that the voracious reader and, you know, talking to people, I think that's one of the biggest things actually having that relationship and having those conversations.
And sitting down to talk with the person because if you come in just trying to be a motivator, why you know, you have to have a y and things that you do and sometimes it can backfire if you're trying too hard to be a motivator, it can come off as phony and people are very smart and they can pick up one. Pick up on those things that he's always.
Had that open door policy. He's always been one of those guys. You just knock on his door and talk, it can be intimidating. A lot of people don't do it. It can be like, going to the principal's office, but he was always been open. I mean, you know, many dinners lunches talking dissecting the game and he wants to be great. I think a lot of people can work on their appetite to be great and it doesn't necessarily mean having a bunch of money or having
Bunch of tremendous amount of success. That could be man. I'm coming here and being consistent. I'm working every day. I'm putting in the work. My mental preparation is good. I'm ready to carry out this task for this goal having this unified goal, and going after it. I think sometimes it's being as simple as that. Can be a tremendous help for a lot of people, but with Pat, he once he identifies a goal. I mean, he goes after it, passionately and wholeheartedly, and then that's when you get into the teeth.
I love it when you're in the Foxhole that's when the passion comes out. You know you can't really motivate someone and you just met him or it's going good. That's right. Naturally going. You want to motivate somebody when it's tough and you have to be in there with them suffering.
Yeah I shared my vision not to be too dramatic. But yeah, you
gotta you gotta take part in the suffering to get over the
hump. This is going to be a strange segue but I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna strong-arm. This one will probably go for just a few more questions.
True or false. I read that you are a fan of Leonardo DaVinci SI, yeah. Okay, please please tell me more why. How did that come about?
I can't remember how it really happened. Of course, everybody knows the Mona Lisa and, and the famous inventions and things that he had. I got my hands on one of the books about his notebook and I read it.
It was amazing. I love Italy. I we went to Rome. We took her early went to Rome pretty early in my career around 2007-2008 somewhere in there and so the Fascinations already there I got to see the Colosseum and I was already infatuated with those things and I got to see that one way or another. I start.
Yeah, reading books and I read that biography Walter Isaacson Road. That's great mr. Goodwin, this is amazing. But I guess, you know, you were kind of alluding to learning to learn in the pushing the human mind and all that stuff. I was just always fascinated by that. So naturally, he just became a person to, you know,
emulate the polymath polymaths me that the, the breath of his
Fascination. Yeah, it's just amazing.
And, and also, and I and I know that.
That, you know this, but if you look at the entire pie chart, let's just say of his completed Works, actually should say his works and the percentage that were completed versus incomplete. Very high percentage incomplete, for sure, and that's kind
of as perfect segue. Actually, I kind of had to come to appreciate that because one could consider a lot of his unfinished work to be a masterpiece. Yeah, you know, and that's kind of how I look at my career because
You know, in my opinion, it was unfinished. It's finished. But it was still an unfinished painting in my opinion. And that kind of gave me a little little confidence to like, he didn't even finish all his pains, you
guys, you know, that was just eventually people and, you know, one of the cool
things. Me and my wife we love to Vacation getting to see those things in person. I mean, I'm an avid Note Taker and I doodle and draw and you don't have sketchbooks all over the place so that was a natural connection right there. But then seeing
Ali seeing the paintings, we saw the Mona Lisa in person.
We saw the Last Supper in person which they were so nice and gave us a private tour in Milan. And when you see it is, have you seen
it? I've not is bigger
than the size of this wall. People can't see it, but I thought it was like war of. Yeah, yeah. On the
arm and like a Tim Ferriss armed are
man. That thing is huge. It's the whole side of a building and it was just breathtaking, and just got away. It's like, but seeing these relics, and all of these things that
Still, you know, stood the test of time and he's still actually here today and just seeing that it was very inspiring. I was always fascinating in the Renaissance you know in the Renaissance period and knowing that the houses were right down the street. So you could go and go study under Michelangelo and be a sculptor. Yeah. And you could go under DaVinci and be a painter in this, right? All right, there, in this small little space outside of Florence are in Florence or whatever. I can't
remember ever just just think of the
She is crazy, crazy,
you know. So it showed me that things are possible that you could do was just through his observation and extensive note-taking and curiosity. You know, I try to embody those things. Yeah, and he had
these also, these incredible inventions and part of the reason, this is reasonably fresh on the mind is that I've interviewed Walter Isaacson a few times and interviewed him about his DaVinci book and some of his inventions were just these prescient accurate predictors of the future, like hundreds of years later,
And a lot of them were terrible and they never would have worked, you would not want to be wearing his, you know, mock-up for bird wings and jump off a cliff. Right. And I think that's also very inspiring in a way around because he had these masterpieces that were masterpieces despite the fact that they were incomplete maybe in some ways, that makes them even all the more interesting and he also had misfires. Mmm? Right. So it's not happening is like if Leo's allowed to have both of those. Yeah, maybe we should be like, it's okay. We could have
them and I'd love to hear your thoughts and I apologize. If you've been asked this a million times, but I think for people listening, your story has many different points that can be inspiring. The one that I think everyone can identify with certainly is point in life when you realize that certain things are within your control and certain things are outside of your control. In fact, a lot of things and and so you have this pulmonary embolism. Mmm. And
For reasons or for causes perhaps partly known partially unknown. Mmm, that marked the beginning of an end of a career. Are there any particular books or resources or advice or anything that helped you through that period? I mean, what was it like emotionally when you realized, okay, I can't actually forestall this any longer. This is how this is it. It
happened in stages I knew I wasn't going to play again for sure all the way.
When supplier by the name of Gordon, Hayward you still plan to this day. Thank goodness. He dislocated his ankle, I hadn't played the year before and I still had dreams and aspirations of playing in the NBA and I mean that took all the wind out of myself. First game of the season first five minutes of me watching that season. I was like, let me watch basketball, I'm gonna get back into it because I'm playing this season, somebody's going to pick me up and that's a dislocated ankle, you know, in that.
In that game, I hadn't watched basketball and close to a year. First game that I wash guy, dislocates, his ankle. And, I mean, whatever motivation that I had instantly went away, and I said, our man, that could be me. Boy, those workouts just weren't as intense after that, in the midst of figuring these things out.
I can't remember what I read, but it was pretty much trusting everything that I read. And all of these books that say, find what you love to do, you gotta love, you gotta love it and it sounds great until you're put in that position, right? And yeah, and so I found myself kind of asking well, what do I like to do basketball? Okay, what else I had to answer that question? I didn't know anything else and I had to deal with the preconceived notion that I guess, people think I'm smart, which is great like
Chris you'll be fine, you'll figure it out but in that moment
you know that's the your day you still have
to figure it out and so I sat I was found myself sitting around. Okay let me answer this question. What else do I love doing and that's where music came in and I always wanted to learn how to play an instrument. It was one of those things where I gave up like two or three times in my teens and 20s. So I said man, you know what this time I'm going to pick it up and I'm not going to
Put it down and I'm going to learn how to play. I'm gonna learn how to play an
instrument, which instrument the
guitar I started with the
guitar. Let me ask is really naive question. I'm just looking at the size of your hands. Compared to my hand. Is it harder for you to form chords on a, on a? On a is a little bit tired. Yeah, it is a little. All right, all right. I've recently, which is the same?
Not course.
Actually but it's the same string string patterns and everything. The nose, it's all the same system so you know. Yeah, I've recently gotten into base in the last few weeks and months, but yeah, I mean, I wanted to learn how to play the guitar man and say, man, I've always, I never
stopped. Does it make any sense? Of course, it doesn't make any
sense, but I love it. This is, I
love it. I was watching The Rolling. Stones is on TV playing. There doesn't need to make sense well into their life and they're still doing shows. I said I want to do that.
I do that for
free and then I found myself my wife and I we we had all we were already Avid music lovers and stuff like that. We cranked it up a notch. We went to rock festivals with the went to Coachella, Glastonbury Bonnaroo, going to see certain shows. You know, meeting all of these cool musicians and just doing something different and I mean it was just, it was amazing and I started getting magical feelings and
those things that magic that
you want to pursue it.
Make any sense at the time? I just knew it felt good and so that opened up a new world of possibility to me. And, you know, I started making more friends making great connections. Music is one of those things that really do bring people together and it's a live element to it. It's a recorded element to it. It's just all these different elements that you could put together or keep separate and just really enjoy it. And so then I found myself, you know, okay playing a guitar. Then I wanted to make beats
And then it just went out to full-fledged Productions and and writing sessions and stuff like that, but continuing to go on and meeting great. People. Rico Love is a great friend of mine, Miguel artist. Miguel is a great friend of mine meeting, Billy Corbin meeting Collective Soul. Having beers after their show, you know? And and and just hanging out there some Atlanta Georgia, Boys. You know, we're connecting with so many different people in. So many different ways was was
Really cool when especially here in Austin has been great. You know, Gary Clark, we met him a few years ago but just I was just so enamored by how they could play the guitar and yeah, and just do all these cool things. So that's just really been a thing that has actually turned into something, but has been great for the spirit. What would you
aside from trying to find the thing that lights you up inside? So, I'm sure you had some dark moments to, I would imagine sure, for sure, for someone who's going through an experience like that, maybe there's something they had planned.
And that they no longer can pursue. Yeah, it may be, they had a career or a relationship or something and now, they just feel this void and they just feel. Mmm, directionless not necessarily hopeless but just really unsure of what to do. Hmm, what advice might you give them? Or what would you say to them
be open? I spoke with a friend. I won't name who they are. I was having one of those days, right? Just in the dumps and I was taking this trip and I was doing some work in this particular.
I was running a network and running a company the CEO and you know I was feeling all bad and stuff and I say man how do you know it's a brilliant person I want to give some insight first thing that person said was well I was a child cancer and when you really do go through a situation to where
You're going to wear hair or no hair, you truly do, find out that is up on you to make a choice to enjoy it or be happy or attempt to get yourself going. And when
they said that, I was like, man
all these problems. Yeah, that I feel that I have in this person just told me they were a kid with cancer.
So that kind of made me realize like okay, put everything to the side. This person just told me that it is really our choice, not necessarily that bad things won't happen or life, won't throw curve balls or things happen or you won't be in a rut. It's just that when you're in this rut it's on you to get out of it and to actually have confidence. Now people can help you. But one of the things that we always said in basketball if you were like, on a
Shitty team, one of the worst experiences to have because, you know, you're losing and then you're feeling bad inside, but then you're making money and it's good money. And
people are like, oh, you're fine. Which, yeah, it's like this
Paradox, but like, we always used to say, hey look, nobody's coming through that door if you're waiting on that perfect person or that, perfect.
Utopian moment to come is not, you had to start putting the work in now. Pick yourself up self-motivation, right? Yeah. You got to get yourself going and then you'd be surprised things start happening. Yeah. But you can't sit in the bed, feeling sorry for yourself. That's like one of the toughest things to do. Sorry, with all these basketball analogies. But,
you know, five game losing streak one of the hardest.
Things to
do is to bounce back and actually win a game because it's hard. Start watching basketball. Watch a bad team play.
They have a chance to win the game there in the game. One bad thing will
happen and they just all the body language the shoulder start slouching people start. No, no. Keep playing. Yeah. Okay. You you know, there's a couple things that hurt or it's a couple things that L is sucks. Let's get that out the way, a sucks right now, but we're
Not going to no pity parties, you know that that becomes being old very fast and you do see success that's not going to take away the challenges, you know, it's still going to be used to them be faced with challenges degli, but if you get into the mindset to where you say, okay, hey, problem-solution. Look in the mirror. What am I going to do right now? Because I'm going to stop. Feeling sorry for me because it's so easy. Right? You could just oh man that you know the coach they they
Did it? Oh man. I after a while it gets old and I assume if someone's listening to this. Now, even if they're in a place where they don't want to be in frustrated with it, it's a Daily Grind, but it's not going to happen tomorrow. You got to make that decision start, focusing, start visualizing, and start working toward that goal and know, just because you had this moment of thought and say, okay I'm going for it, the Seas aren't going to part. You know it's just not going to just open up for you and say okay
Chris great. Yeah it is what you wanted.
It's not like that. You've got to be consistent. Be diligent. And just know that the challenge is going to come. And when these things arise, again, I'm not going to feel sorry for myself. We're gonna win this game even when it gets hard and then we're going to do it again and again, and again, and again. And just, you know, get to that point.
That's a great story. Well you had it is when you have that conversation with this I guess Network exec. Do you recall what the next thing was that you did when you're like oh wow. Okay, that puts things in perspective.
If I stop complaining. Yeah, I knew I was coming. I didn't know I was complaining, but I heard myself. I heard my language. Sometimes, you got to listen to yourself, and this was me after me, promising myself, that I wouldn't complain. After I came from Africa, I went to Africa, we went to joburg. We went out the clip town and Soweto and solve, real poverty. Yeah, went to India. Speaking of being the NBA Global Ambassador, we went to places and we have seen real poverty. You know, that make the projects of
like a five-star hotel and so
When I saw those things and you take in all that stuff. It's like, man, it's heavy. And what have I been complaining about? I haven't been complaining, man. I've been playing a little bit when she said that I instantly. Stop feeling sorry, for myself and said, okay.
At the end of the day. Yeah, 13 years in the league and I've got a shot at doing something else. That's all I need. I don't need the like, I say that leader to come by and say no, Chris, let me tell you something, kicked the door in and just get me going that right there was kind of like, oh man, I felt bad, you know, for even having
Now, weakness, not points of weakness. But just like having those thoughts and just saying, like, what do people say, when you think you've got problems with everybody? Put their problems on the table. You'll pick yours back up real
good. Never heard that. That's great. It's kind of that's pretty much what it was like. Okay, I got some problems with man. Okay, I'll take those back. Whenever how you feeling? Fine, I'm doing great. I'm so glad that they were having this conversation.
It's so easy to complain. And yeah, I feel like I've been complaining a lot in the last handful of weeks and it's it's socially reinforced, you will find somebody. If you go searching who's going to encourage you, oh yeah, you're right to feel that way. Oh, that's terrible. And then how do you feel, right? How do you feel when you're doing this for people
listening to, you know, make you look at who's around you a little more. Yeah. It's because it's like, yeah. Yeah, it's tough. And it sucks. It's been like that for years but aren't you tired of it? Yeah. You sick and tired of being sick and tired.
Yeah, right after a while. It's not going to change. Yeah, these habits that you're building, you got to think about the habits that you're building, what? And I tell people to be conscious of what you're consuming, especially nowadays, I tell my kids that I try to, you know, even for myself, you know, just with everything you can consume. It's a lot of BS. Yeah. You know, so just be aware of what you're putting into your mind. What you're thinking about and yeah, birds like a feather, right? If you're you find yourself complaining and yeah, people a sap
You can have pity party but after a while, they're going to get tired of you complaining, complaining about you
ha ha ha, you know? So it just you just get to a point where
it's like, okay, hey man, let's talk about Solutions. Yeah, you know, let's talk about Solutions. How do we get out of this rut or how do we find that next thing to do for me music and writing? I would have looked at you like, you had eight heads, five, six years ago
music, maybe five years
ago.
Not so much writing. Yeah, I always did them but just thinking of that I wouldn't have even come close at that time, but going through challenges and situations you want to, you want to come out better, right? You don't want to still be hold up talking about what could have been or why it didn't happen at gets old after a while.
So, ladies and gentlemen, if Chris Bosh can have these days you can too, but it's about what you actually do in response to those days. And
You know, that long time ago, your inspire me, I'm going to do it again. I read a short book, it was called the 21-day no complaint experiment written by a pastor will Bowman. I think is the name and it's just a commitment to not complain for 21 days like and it had a huge impact. I got Rita and I'm going to do that. Because like you said, if you were to put your problems on the table with even a small subset of humankind, you be like I'll take this back. Yeah, thanks thanks.
No, nobody take my problem cookies, I want those. I'm going home with those and it really does make a tremendous difference. And I think that letters to a young athlete is going to do a lot of good. I'm very excited about this. I am thrilled, you took the time to do it properly two and a half years when I hear people like yeah, we started writing three months later, we were down. I was like don't send it to me and hey, look what I had to prefer it, to be one. One and a half. Sure we had the intention but, you know, the
process is the process.
Process the process. You go through, you know, and we've been Hands-On from the jump. This has been so special to me, but it's like I was joking the other day. You said in writing about a book overcoming obstacles. We had to overcome obstacles writing the
book. That was
a good one, man, and it was, it was such a, it was a tremendous process and I think a lot of people will really, really be able to
Take something for themselves, no matter what they do, they'll be able to take something for themselves because, you know, it's been a team effort through and through. It's been one of those things to where I'm talking about people that I admire and situations that I admire for my own life. That was like, oh yeah, in the moment you're just doing it but then reflecting on it, it's like, oh yeah, that conversation that I had with my coach back. When I was 21, that was set off these ripple effect that off the Ripple effects are wouldn't freak out.
Yeah.
Ha ha ha. Yeah, it's it makes me happy. You took the time. I remember, somebody said to me at one point I was struggling as I do with any writing a struggling through book and they said, oh, you 90% done. Congratulations. You only have 50 percent left. I was like 90 p.m. done many percent like yeah. Wait a minute, wait a minute like, you'll see what I mean and I think, you know, athlete is an interesting term.
and letters to a young athlete, you might even say letters to a young competitor and people might be inclined to say, well, I'm not a competitor and I would say
You are even if you don't compete with other people there's a competition like we've been discussing between your less ourselves and your better self. Absolutely
Sango. Yeah, we're all
in the game, everybody's in
there and and you know, it's you know, like I said, giving you the tools and teamwork is definitely one of one of the main tools. Of course, mental preparation self-motivation getting yourself ready and going but teamwork and working with others learning how to coexist.
With people going after that goal. Definitely think that's a huge huge important thing that we definitely definitely talk about because going to Miami plan with the best two players in the world. So my ego had to take a back seat. I came in thinking I was going to be the number one scorer.
In the league.
Definitely in Miami only because I said,
man, they can score, but I can score two and they're going to be making plays for me. That was in my head, but the math doesn't work, you know, you're going to have to learn how to coexist within this structure. Being the third Peg on the stool. Nothing wrong with that. But fighting that notion, that, that actually means something putting the team before yourself. And, you know, making those tough decisions that you have to make.
Because it doesn't feel good, but the team isn't done. So, hey Chris, you need to play the center guard, these bigger news because you're the only one I can do it. Rebound, the ball and get it to these guys. Like no no I want to score you. Do you give me the ball? No, no spell. You must have it wrong. You get
me the ball and everybody else get out the way. That's how we
did and it's not necessarily the case if you want to be successful. So that's like always kind of a thing that always took very importantly and took the heart.
If you're going after a championship or Legacy or greatness or something like that, and you're part of a team, the team has to come before the person and what's best for the team. You know, might not be best for your ego sometimes and you have to be okay with that. You got to tell you, you go take it back seat, let yourself take the backseat. We're going to be Champions, man.
Yeah, sometimes that's what it takes. Yeah, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far go together and together man.
Chris Bosh at Chris Bosh on Twitter. Also on Instagram at Chris, Bosh, official, Chris, Bosh on Facebook. The new book is letters to a young athlete. I've really enjoyed this conversation. It's so nice to meet you
same here, nice meeting you and
I is there. Anything else you'd like to to say to the audience any other requests comments, questions, anything you'd like to add before we before we wrap
up. Oh man, I just love starting a discussion. I think that's what the future is really going to be a
about. So I want this book to be a discussion and really you know all books and just be as civilized discussion and where we can see where each other's coming from. Because I think nowadays, you know, things get polarize and kind of either taken out of context or being too much. I want everyone to know how important this book is to me, but with that said we want to start the conversation of how to be great breaking those things down. How to constantly get over those challenges like I keep.
Alluding to that are coming and to have those open discussions and just continue to push the boundaries and a positive great way. But let everybody know they can do it. If they have that thing, do it. Don't wait and you can do it.
Look in the mirror. Don't complain
problem and solution. Look in the mirror
problem and solution letters to a young athlete is the book and I'm excited for you. That's a, it's a big accomplishment. I know how much effort goes into it.
It. And I'm thrilled that people will get to learn. Also the principles, right? You'll have stories, but also the principles that you've applied, not just to one thing but too many things even though you are best known for one thing and I think, you know, in a way the the obstacles that you faced within the context of a book like this are a tremendous gift because there are battles everyone is fighting that we know nothing about you've had to face.
Overcome obstacles yourself and I think that is incredibly humanizing also.
So absolutely and that's what you know, we like to call the pillars of getting through things. You know, the pillars of success. That's kind of like my working title for it. You know his perseverance mental preparation rising to the occasion. Teamwork is it is a huge of them. Visualization is huge, because I feel in my life, everything that's happened. I always saw it in my mind's eye first, and did hours and hours, and hours of imagining.
And you know then it's time to put in the work after that and you can't just sit there and dream about it. You just got to go out there and do it and you know work be calculated. Of course, you just can't go out there with no goal and just run around like a chicken with your head cut off, but you can't identify that goal and then work backwards and say, okay, what do I need to do and work hard at those things?
Yeah, one step at a time. Chris, thank you so much for taking the
time. Thank you, man. I'm so glad to be on here is great. I've been listening for years and it's great to be on here,
really?
I hope it fits. Yeah, it does fit, it's great to spend some time together. And for everybody listening, we will have links to everything including letters to a young athlete in the show notes that Tim dot blog, for / podcast, easy to find. And until next time, thank you for tuning in. Hey guys, this is Tim again just a few more things before you take off. Number one, this is five bullet Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me and what do you enjoy getting a short email for me every Friday?
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