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Hello everyone. Welcome to the Tim Ferry Show episode 500. I am your host Tim Ferriss. I'm not embarrassed. I'm Kevin Rose Tim. Thank you for having me. Dude. I know I was your first guest on episode 1, but I'm honored to be interviewing you for this episode.
I am so thrilled and excited and wouldn't have it. Any other way so stoked to be reunited. We have some wine I have this kind of
Magnum bottle of white wine Kevin worried that I had already polished off 7/8 of it but I had I'm in the jungle with an Italian there's more to that but the table wine is courtesy of his house and he gave me just enough to looks kind of like horse urine in this Mar shot, but
just enough to have fun
without getting slots because we have a history with one. You know,
it's funny. I told Ari I was like, okay. Here's the deal. I'm going to pour two glasses into my glass.
- and I don't care if I'm texting you do not bring the bottle back down like do not do it. So I actually but I totally screwed up and I brought the bottle and sitting next to me now, but it was a good plan is for as long as it lasted dude. So how you know, it's funny. I remember you came to me. And you said I think I want to do a podcast and you've done podcast before because I had done like three hundred episodes of diggnation prior to you know, you starting yours, and I remember this is a horrible, but it's
You I remember just being like Tim don't do a podcast. It's stupid. But I was trying to talk to you about I fuck I feel so bad for that now because you went you did it and obviously some massive success. So what do I know but do you decide if you must have given me some type of good
advice or the bad advice wasn't compelling enough? Yeah. Here we are and I remember recording that first episode. We are in San Francisco. My first apartment had rented in San Francisco and this huge wooden table.
all mmm and
I remember being really nervous. We had all sorts of gear. We had all sorts of fancy, you know mixers and everything else fits somebody helping my hands are sweaty. And I had a list of questions a printout and I remember in that first episode number one. It was per your description Tim Tim talk talk because I didn't have a name and then I remember asking you a question which was
If you could be a breakfast cereal, what would you be and why and you went? Oh, it's one of those
interviews and I was like never again. Will I ask that question you had to test them out though is you know, not every question work. So you were new to games it was good
training. All right, so I saw you take a sip so you've got your wine. Yeah. This is so your dreams and table wine. I'm drinking grocery table wine.
Yeah, Cielo CI ELO from 1908 Pinot Grigio. And this is what the city of fancy water and drinking out of my fancy. Yeah likes 12 ounce water glass since I don't have any wine
glasses. I am doing the 2016 Napa Valley reserve. It is fantastic white wine, just a little Chardonnay good stuff.
Congrats
on being guest number 500 and congrats
to a longstanding
friendship. Honestly, it's been two years that
that brother lots of
lots of Adventures. So cheers. Yeah,
cheers really nice really nice to have
continued to deepen and stay in touch over all these years. Absolutely. I feel like that is probably a Sentimental it's as it's going to get and you seem to have lots of air.
In the quiver for questions, you gave me a
lot of morning warned you via text message and I have not reviewed
anything as
well. So this is the cool thing is I was putting together a Google doc and I was like, okay Tim will share the Google Doc up with some questions in there. Tell me what you think and he's like actually I'd rather do this just sight unseen. Let's just roll with it. So I went out, you know did a little Twitter post you retweeted it. We got a few hundred questions there. Also some of your good friends like, mr. Chris sacca.
Who's up mutual friend of ours reached out and sent me some some very colorful questions if you will, so I kind of I'm kind of saving those for a little bit like well actually want to start with a soccer one, but some of them are the more juicier ones are going to be peppered in a little bit later in the show. So this is fun. This is a good good mix of serious and crazy. And yeah, it's a smorgasbord of questions if you will a grab bag of podcasting Delights. I'm ready. Okay.
So here we go. I'm actually going to lead off with a soccer question because he sent so many good ones. He said what one thing do you eat that you've never wanted to admit to the 4-Hour Body tribe with a
boy. Well, I will say the first thing that comes to mind because it's a recent example is if I've had two or more glasses of wine and there is pizza within 30 feet of me.
It's game over it's completely game over. So I was having a bunch of pizza and buy a bunch. I mean like six to ten slices just a few days ago. And this is at the tail end of a bottle of wine and my friend one of my friends I was with here said what would all of your readers of the 4-Hour Body
say while you're prohibiting them from eating carbs look at
yourself. And so that's that's the first thing that comes to mind if
there.
Are any tim tams nearby? Tim tams are this
yes cookie treat that I just think are delicious. They're amazing. And there's the Tim Tam slam, which is when you dunk it into something like milk or any number of other things tim tams are also dangerous territory. So those are the pizza and tint
amps when you say but 30 feet away. Do you mean that like your phone is 30 feet away and you order pizza and have it delivered to your house because that's my that's what I do. That's my dog. I'm eliminating the
phone from this if
why walk let's just say pre covid X. Yeah had a few drinks. I'm walking down a street to get to wherever I'm going and we pass a piece of joint or if it's within like excusable rationalizing distance
like oh let's just go over and take a look at the menu. Right if it's a little
right turn and have to go a quarter mile. I'm not going to do it. So I'll try to preserve some dignity. But if it's within watering distance say There's A Place Called Home Slice on South Congress in Austin.
And it's dangerously dangerously close down Main kind of pedestrian area. So I would I would I would
succumb. Yeah. Yeah. We're in the same camp of anything was within a couple blocks of my house. It's like game over like that's just going to happen all the time. Alright, so next next question love the show. However, it seems that you're constantly searching for the next big lifehack next product that will satisfy excetera. That would be exhausting and when lead to constant anxiety.
Xiety my question Tim. Have you found peace outside of having things or knowing things?
That's
a damn fine question. Is this from the interwebs? It is yeah my relationship to self-improvement or thinking about hacks and so on has changed over time and you know, the word hack used to not have as much baggage as it now does so I use that term effectively never these days because it's just established such a were taken on such a
Kind of a nasty hmm negative overtone, but I'll tell a story. I think this illustrates how I'm reorient reorienting quite easily and that is of spending time with an incredible. I want to see a psychiatrist. He's also I want to say an ordained minister and maybe getting some of the details wrong here. Maybe it's a masters of divinity. I don't know.
Named Bill Richards and Bill Richards is well known also for being one of the most experienced. Let's call it guides or facilitators above ground in the Psychedelic world. So he's facilitated hundreds of sessions along with a woman named Mary Cusimano, who's who's equally impressive in so many ways and and just an incredible human being and I spent time with Bill he supervised tjeerd.
And years of sessions both pre-prohibition meaning pre the Controlled Substances Act and post so he's done all sorts of trainings all over the world and there were two things that stood out from that conversation immediately. Number one. I asked him what books he could recommend for learning more about the process of guiding the protocols. They used at the end. He said well, so, you know the problem with books and I was like, what's the problem with books? And he said too many words.
Again, it gives you an idea of his personality. And then the second thing he said was related to doing the work. I know because I said I'm not afraid to do the work and he said well, you know a so tricky about doing the work and I asked him.
What it was that was so tricky and he said well, there's a very thin line between doing the work and just picking on yourself. So I think that in a self-improvement and how much it affects you positively or negatively for me personally depends a lot on the motivation behind it. Right? Like are you running away from something or are you running towards something? Are you finding problems with yourself or problems in your life? Just because you've been rewarded throughout your life as a problem solver.
I think that's true for me. It's true for a lot of people yours good at solving problems. So you get really good at finding problems or are you doing it? Because there's some joy in doing it, right? So for instance right now, I'm trying to pick up a couple of different games like board games chess. There are a number of things and I find those really fun. So I'm improving my thinking and so on looking at a game of complete information like chess learning about classical game.
Games and all this stuff look Galls mate, I think is one that I learned yesterday, which is just gorgeous with two knights and I'm a novice but I'm having so much fun doing it. First is let's just say a contrast with that would be a therapy session that I had yesterday where we got into all this childhood stuff and Revisited a bunch of trauma and I came out of the session feeling much worse than when I went into it and it occurred to me that I think that
We can feel like we're doing a good thing. Sometimes when were suffering and grinding but that does not by default mean that we're doing something worthwhile or improving and so after that session, I sort of committed to myself not to like dredge up all of the pain from the past in the name of doing the work just because I can so I feel like I have a
Very good relationship to hacks and all that stuff. Now it doesn't cause me stress. And in fact it never really has but I think for a very long time I looked for problems to solve because I was good at solving problems and not all of those problems were worthwhile and many of those problems were just masochistic if
that makes any sense it does how do you apply this though to actual products? Like for example, you know, you do the five bullet Friday really famous newsletter you finding
Kinds of stuff. Imagine people are they just send you free stuff? Like if you have any kind of following it's like very common on the internet people want to try and send you things to check out. Like, how do you not just accumulate a bunch of crap? Like I find that every little object you own is sub some type of subconscious like burden, you know, it's just like just storing it to learn. It's just a
psychic drag. It's like imagine dragging all that shit around behind you and like a net.
So, what do you what do you do? What do you do there? Because you must see so and get so much stuff. Like, how do you
Clear that out. How do you not try out? The latest product? Yeah.
Number one is I really don't encourage people to send things to me. I mean, you know this because for better for worse you've turned into my unpaid executive assistants, so you
can people try to go through
you and I'm just like now I'm good. I'm good for now and what I'll very often do number one I've policies so I try to make one decision that removes a thousand decisions, right? So
Even in 2009 I was getting 30 to 40 books sent to me by Publishers are authors per week. That that's impossible, right? You can't even begin to read those let alone have your own life with your own priorities if you bend to that type of incoming so I initially just said no no, no, no, no, no, no and they're all but even saying no is exhausting man took a
Of time when you start to have not 30 40 a week, but several hundred a week and I then posted for instance a blog post, which is a general policy of not reading any new books in 2020. Meaning any books published in 2020. I've extended that to 2021. I'm not reading any books published in 2021. So when someone asks me or ask someone on my team they can say up. Sorry. Yeah Tim's just not doing that check out Tim dot blog forward slash new books.
Deep personal
exactly. Yeah, it depersonalizes it so it makes it easier to say no and it makes it easier for other people to receive. No the other thing is like if someone's like hey, let me send you blah blah blah blah blah free product free fill in the blank the first thing you gotta remember is like, I remember somebody said once and I can't remember the attribution but like free sex is the most expensive sexual ever have right. That's true for free books. That's true for free product.
It's not free. Yeah, there's gonna be if you have an audience is going to be a follow-up and sometimes it's like, oh my God 10 years later. I've had 73 emails from this person. Don't open that door. So if someone says, hey, I'd love for you to try X if it's a really close friend and I know they're putting their like reputation on the line and putting some skin in the game right there risking something then maybe but very rarely if it's a book or something else. I'm like, you know what I'll buy it
myself. So, how do you
Round the purchasing side of it. Like how do you make a decision to actually buy something like how do you prevent yourself from overspending on items? Like is there anything that you use to be more minimal? Well, I know you've had this snooze
function right where you won't allow yourself to make the three am Amazon purchase. You have to hit snooze for 24 hours. Yeah.
So this brings up
questions related to some level of what people might consider success, right? So you end up in situations.
And this is a very rarefied situation. So I want to acknowledge that upfront like you and I are in very fortunate positions. But let's say I get set a bunch of shit somehow it gets sent to me and it's not useful to me. I'm not interested in it, but it could be very useful to someone else. Let's take an easy example. Someone sends me a bunch of schwag right like sweat shirts and hats and so on. It's like I have more I have enough clothing last me forever. I don't need any more t-shirts.
None of it. The cheapest thing for me to do is to throw that out right to literally throw it in the trash. Okay, then there are karmically better things to do like taking it to Goodwill which is what I usually do and then I'm paying an assistant twenty Thirty forty dollars an hour to do that. Right? I could return something.
This is another consideration. Right? Like am I actually going to return something if I don't want it the answer is likely. No. Yeah, so I really try to measure twice and cut once in those cases and I think I am disinclined to buy too many things right now. Although if you looked at my Amazon order history that might sound ridiculous, but compared to say even a few years ago I buy
Far fewer things because the for me the visual punishment of having a disordered kitchen table of having a disordered house is so irritating. I'm very visually sensitive and kind of like monk from the TV show in that way. I dislike that so much and I dislike waste so much. This is particularly true of food. I'm very sensitive to food waste.
That it's sort of a self-correcting system in that way. I become much more sensitive to clutter in the last few years.
Yeah, it makes sense. All right, let's move on to the next question. Is there any advice you used given to you or that you have given in the past? That wasn't the best not trying to be a troublemaker. I'm just wondering how high performers know when to course-correct EG.
Bandon faulty Notions
the message very good. That's a yeah, it does make sense. It's a very good and it's a very important question, right? Because you always get advice from people who have done well or you see advice from people who've done well, and there's a survivorship bias, right? It's like
the Warren Buffett
parable of sorts. Maybe it's not Parable. Maybe it's a metaphor. I always mix up metaphor and analogy in any case maybe it's a simile. I can never keep those straight, but he talks about if you take a 10,000 orangutans and they're flipping quarters. Like eventually you're going to end up with one orangutan who is like flipped heads a hundred times and then orangutan is going to write books about how to flip quarters and beat the stock market and like so there's so much chance involved in there such a survivorship bias.
Meaning you only see the advertisements for the mutual funds that survive in a magazine like Barons or whatever. It's important as that question and I'm saying all that to buy myself some time because I know those who must exist I'll give one the other one. I had an incredible aversion to any type of investment in publicly traded equities in stocks until just a few years ago. You know, this you've watched this. Yeah. I
mean were you
Ellen people not to invest in stocks or was this something someone told you?
So was it advice that you gave her advice that we received was that was his
advice. It was advice that I received from a few people. I respect who were very uncomfortable and investing in publicly traded equities because they felt like they could not directly impact the value of those companies and these were startup investors and that made a lot of sense to me at the time and that logic still makes sense. Right? Like what am I going to do, too?
Increase the market cap and the price per share of Tesla. Right like very very little I mean, I suppose my audience is large enough that maybe for a day I could like register a blip maybe but really not much and my thinking has become more nuanced right? Because the argument that I can't have a substantial impact on the price per share. Therefore I shouldn't invest is kind of two parts, right? So the assumption that I can't have a substantial impact on price per share that's valid.
But does that therefore lead to the conclusion? I should not invest. I think there are other considerations. So thinking about timeline, right? So if I'm trying to invest in a company over six months, I've been zero confidence or very little confidence unless there is a huge drop for some reason that I think is unwarranted. But if it's over a two to three year time Horizon, and I don't feel any pressure trade then I become much more comfortable investing.
In a hand, excuse me, a handful of got the wine burps already
after one last.
I feel much more comfortable investing in a handful of companies that I feel are kind of inevitable unless they're grossly mismanaged like from a tech Trend perspective. They're kind of inevitably going to do decently well over two to three year period
so how did you know when to course-correct though that that was actually injured really interesting part of the guys question is like as a high performer like, you know, it's easy to get really kind of into
someone's advice especially if it comes from someone that's like super vetted and you will really believe in like, when did you decide like this is bad advice. I need to change this. Yeah, you're good at this you should interview people.
So I think it was forced upon me in a way.
By covid in this particular instance because I was sitting in almost. Well, I shouldn't say entirely cash but largely in cash. Like let's call it just for the sake of argument 50% cash. Yeah, it was so
dumb. Well, maybe well, I mean when you're an all-cash you're losing by just by inflation. You're losing money. Just let me know. Well we could debate whether I was just thinking okay, we could
fight over this one for a long time. I slept well it
night verse several years and I gotta have a huge because I had a bed of cash and I don't think that should be underestimated. I don't think a good investment is a good investment if it has really high returns, but you're like sweating bullets within certain you right and that's a very personal thing. So for me having a lot of reserves and cash help me sleep.
I don't regret it, but when covid hit and right before covid hit and there was the gigantic plummet. I knew there was going to be a plummet or I suspected with high conviction and there's going to be a gigantic plummet. I was not Savvy with options or credit default swaps. That was just not on the menu for me, but I thought they were going to be buying opportunities in many places. So then the question was well, I've been sitting on the sidelines I said I would be back.
Back even in 2015 right now. We have to be aware of the sunk cost fallacy not the same cost fallacy, but the confirmation bias and all these various things where it's like if I publicly stated like when there's blood in the streets, I will be back and I will invest I said that 2015 when I quote unquote retired from startup investing, but I deeply believed it. I was like, this
is I don't as Tim Ferriss is the person
who really understands very few aspects of investing with any competence.
I don't get a lot of fat pictures like this and I was like, where am I going to put money? Like I have all this money that I have claimed. I've been waiting to deploy what the fuck am I going to do with and I spoke with dozens of investors not just to people I respected and ultimately came to believe very deeply in a few positions whether the consequences severe and also extended of covid on
Both the economy on technology on Behavior were cute or to three years long companies. I felt would really benefit in either scenario and the liquidity profile of equities right like you want to get out you can get out you might get kicked in the balls from a tax perspective etcetera, but you have liquidity unlike lot of the stuff that we do right like you put money in and like you are in like your chips are on the table for you know, five to ten.
There's we both have examples that are way past 10 years. Yeah, and so that would be an example. The example is interesting not because Equity is not because the stock market not because blah blah blah. It's the process right and I was lucky to have a forcing function. I will say here's another one. I have really relied on dietary interventions and exercise and so on for manipulating my blood markers.
Right my blood tests for a long time. And if you look at my lipid profile, so my let's just say my cardiac and lipid profile Genetically speaking. I have terrible terrible terrible software for a few things. Like it doesn't matter if I'm vegan. I've tried that for a period of time just to see what it did for my blood. What does matter from fasting I've done tons of fasting pure keto doesn't matter if I all meet I've tried all these
And I've looked at the blood test and my apob count and various other things are terrible.
They're so bad to me. Both man
sucks. Yeah. Yeah and it's just like look I have my dad's had a heart attack. My uncle's have had strokes and cardiac issues. This is a we just got dealt a really shitty hand from a cardiac perspective and I've never considered going on medication like Xena.
My job is the one I'm considering long-term or indefinitely but after doing cardiac calcium scoring, which is zero currently but also angiograms and all of these things that are more nuanced and provide more detail. I've kind of changed my tune. I think there is a point where the risk benefit.
Ratio leads one to the conclusion that it makes sense. Right? And this
is truth. Also like the vaccines right? I
think the Utica vaccines make overwhelming sense for a very high percentage of the population. Yeah, so that would those be two
examples. Yeah. That's great. Awesome.
Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll
be right back to the show.
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Alright another question. I'll let you try and guess who this one is from ends with. Akka when was the last time when was the last time a blood or urine sample was stored in your fridge.
It's a good one because there was a
time when you open up your fridge and it's like a six pack of beer. There's just urine everywhere like there's yeah, there's urine
blood and stool samples were the best with The Biohazard marker on it. Yeah, you have to be very careful in the fair.
Household you also you also really don't want to take any supplements until you confirm that the label corresponds to what is actually in the
bottle you to leave when I am bro. What's your classrooms? I was in your house. I went to the bathroom one time and like I do you have to cover it open or some shit and I look up and it's like it's like a freaking Walgreens dude, like you had thousands of supplements. Like how does he take all this stuff? I mean, it's you just worried elating over time.
Yeah. It's been accumulated over time. I
Also have dramatically reduced the number of supplements that I take, but all right. So as far as blood blood and urine samples go I haven't stored any of that in the refrigerator for a long time now doesn't mean that I haven't taken samples. So the last time I took let's see blood and urine samples. I mean within the last two weeks or three weeks within the last three weeks, but I you I have realized during covid that there is
Sure thing called mobile phlebotomy. So you can rather than going into Quest or one of these labs to have a draw performed orange your doctor's office. There are in fact services or people who provide mobile blood draws so you can set an appointment. You can even meet them outside and literally it's like you wake up. You probably do not eat breakfast be wake up your fasting and you have a blood draw
Within.
Five to ten minutes. They're actually not that expensive either. I have looked into I had one no happen here in Oregon. It was like 50 bucks to have it done. And yeah, it's fantastic. Like what a partially drained covid. Did you don't want to be around it? Like 15 other people our room?
Yeah. It's amazing. I have found it to be a godsend and really really convenient mobile phlebotomist for people are wondering how it's spelled a phlebotomist is pH pH l
With a bunch of ease and O's and other Wheel of Fortune
ingredients. All right. All right, I will say though that people wanted us to get a lot of the comments was they get personal like it into it. I will tell one of the little story when I when I was leaving your house that one time I made this is a long time ago is like a decade ago or something you you're like, you're like, okay, like most friends. They said goodbye, like, you know, give you a hug or whatever fist-bump whatever you like Hannah me like you like. All right, dude, like have a good one like and you hammy like a bottle of beef liver.
Pills do you remember this? Those are great. I'm like, okay cool friend. Thanks for the beef liver. You didn't even tell me what to do with them. It's like hey takes a beef liver on your way out. Yeah. Those were that's
desiccated beef liver from grass-fed cows and Argentina. I remember that. Yeah those I had a friend who was deficient in all sorts of things. I gave him those and he took them and he's like, I feel like I'm on crack like I have so much energy that I cannot even begin
to.
You
understand how tired I was for so long. So yes there ever was and that
was
off had I don't I don't need it's on Amazon. I know that I ordered it on Amazon nice.
So all right Caveat
Emptor be where you're not all beef liver pills are created
equal. Yeah, you don't want like nasty hormone injected beef liver pills. Like don't know. No. Alright. So going a little bit more sensitive. I wish we had like some background music that we could play with this psychics in
I bet
bet I bet we can figure out some background. Yeah, that's like a
nice like we'll make it happen sweet. You have the resources. How how did you meet and fall in love with your girlfriend?
Just a quick note from the editor in post-production. This is Tim. I had to cut part of this one for privacy
reasons, but I love you all very much now back to our show which which is the strong hand like
that.
Good booth and I was very interested. So texted her we had a drink we met up and rest is history. That's amazing. That was quite a few years
ago. So let me ask you a question though, because I got it your fans are going to want this I have to do it. I apologize to him. It says in the the actual question fall in love. So when was the like like for me, you know you talked about what when I met Daria the bar we talked about Zelda and she was a big Zelda fan. I was like, oh my God, I could love this girl like it was
Or something that jumped out during that first couple dates where you're just like this girl could be an amazing match for me hose. And again it were the traits. Like was there anything that you jumped out as I got a common movie like something she said that was funny. Like what was it that that like started to check those boxes for you?
You know, it was none of that. It was none of the data points or things. She said like, oh we have that in common.
Our values are aligned. It was more of a feeling like I felt very at ease with her. I felt like I didn't need to have my defenses up. I felt like there were I was very confident. There were no ulterior
motives. That is the hugest thing for you dude. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I
just felt very comfortable and she was so playful and funny and light basically all the things. I'm not
most of the time and say she also gave me so much energy. You know what I'm talking about. Like that's a big deal. Yeah, right. Like there are there people who drain your energy and they're people who give you energy and their peep. Some people are may be neutral but I think over time as you interact with more people as you get older certainly as you develop an audience of any type you become much more sensitive to that because you're much more exposed to it. Yeah, and she just gave
So much energy. I mean it was such a net positive for my state of being and I think that drove it and yes, we ended up having all these values and common. Yes, we ended up having lots of priorities and interests in common, but that was secondary to the
feeling. That's so cool that you know, one of the things that you know, you don't have talked about privately a lot that I think is worth mentioning. You can always cut it out like you do.
By the way, just so people know you've cut out some shit out of previous podcast. I don't cut this out. Well, I want to tell you know, there are no for some exactly legal reasons in some cases. But yes continue. So I was just going to say that I love that she brings down brought the anxiety level down for you because one of the things that that I know is tougher for almost probably anybody that has some some Fame and Fortune as you have it's like there are so many people that would date you.
You know because of your quote-unquote Tim Ferriss and like there's there's money and fame that goes along with that. Right? So you could go to La and you there's any number of people I'm sure that you could date because of those reasons and because of that. I know you've had a pretty big wall like you put up a wall to protect yourself cause that's not what you want. You want someone long-term. You don't want just like some Rando and it's cool that she know, it's cool that she brought that down though that that's a huge thing for you to find. I'm happy about that.
Yeah. I'm happy that it's to throw.
About it. It's it's fucking weird, you know having you know meeting people who let's just say 8 times out of 10 have Googled your name beforehand. That's fucking weird. Yeah. It's really really strange and you have to be very careful because let's not kid ourselves. Like there are a lot of sharks out there. Yeah. It's been really nice and her parents are amazing. I've spent a lot of time with her.
Parents and she's very down-to-earth and by down-to-earth I say that in the most complimentary way possible Right by down to earth like it makes me think of I think his name is Donald knuth KN U th but at some point he disavowed email. I think he was at IBM. I might be making that up and he said email is great for keeping on top of things. He's like, but I don't want to keep on top of things. I want to
Get to the bottom of things. Hmm. I'm paraphrasing here the people who are down to earth from my perspective. I like getting to the bottom of thinks they're aware of like the tectonic plate level of things moving and their awareness is much more grounded. I use that word again in what I would consider a true reality then a lot of the people who are higher up in the sky.
Stack of abstraction. So there's a computer science analogy here, but I won't belabor that case. I'll just embarrass myself the point being I felt like she really had her feet on the ground and was paying attention to the important things. She had an awareness including a self-awareness perhaps principle among all of those that led me to feel very comfortable. Right, but when people are surfing the chop, I went there on the surface and it's like
Whatever is trending on Twitter is directing their attention for hours a day. Even if they are on some level at their core really good people. It makes them a liability. So that makes sense because they're so easily swayed to one channel or direction or me more hashtag or movement or crisis. Like that's a very unpredictable person. I was on cue I was good. I like that.
Phones ringing but I don't know why I call me twice. Sorry you get pushed through. Let's keep going. No problem is
who is that? Was that your bail bonds is
Tony and Tony Conrad just freaking called multiple times fucking Tony compound ruining rid of podcast. God. Damn it.
Tony's a good friend. So I feel free to give him shit. If you guys actually want to just a side note research a really good early stage investor.
Who's a good dude and really likes his coffee? And he will tell you about blue bottle. So be prepared. You should check out 20 Conrad. He's good guy. Also partner at your firm. Yeah, he's a he's a colleague A
co-worker. He's got some good deals. He's got a great eye. All right. So let's move on to the next question name a mistake you made in one of your books that you wish you could take back the has to be some don't say there. I don't
know. There's gotta be something mean. They're probably hundreds of
My books are fucking long. I mean you have so many
I mean induced our body there had to be something like the consumption of horse urine or there was something in there that you have.
Well, I mean there was one mistake that I pulled out. So in the first edition of the 4-Hour Body there's a whole chapter on extended breath holds and I realize that's just too dangerous people don't understand the safety precautions you need to take for breath holds and it was yanked. So that didn't actually make it to
press.
Yeah, it made it to press for one printing
that was a David Blaine chapter talking about how he trained me to hold my breath for like five minutes and I realized that you just have to assume that 90% of the people out. There aren't going to read any of the safety cautionary tales, right? They're not going to read the caveat or not going to read the Preamble. They're going to skip straight to the how-to and it's very dangerous. So that was one. How
about you this science because the science changes so fast. Is there anything you look back?
And you're like, oh gosh that's just not accurate anymore. Well, I will
say there was a weight loss stack of supplements called pag nicknames pag, which was Pali Coast and all probably mispronouncing that but I've only read it never heard. It said in fact alpha lipoic acid garlic extract like Allison and green tea extract preferably decaffeinated and of that.
Attack the most suspect or questionable of those is the first Pali Coast and almond and there are some studies that came out of Cuba. But um, I like how much can you trust that if they're exporting sugar cane and blah blah blah blah.
So I would
say if I were to put anything on the chopping block, it would probably be polar Coastal and
really the
evidence for that from an NF1 perspective was my own personal experience there.
Seemed to be some effect on cholesterol or lipid metabolism with Polly causin all that increased fat loss above and beyond that which I was able to achieve with AGG but that is not the bubbly blinded that is not randomized. That's not suitable control.
So but the alaa is there for fat loss,
right?
Yeah, so yeah alpha lipoic acid is insulinoma medic as I understand it it imitates and produces some analogous effect to insulin to a lesser degree. So alpha lipoic acid is interesting. If you over consume it it can cause all sorts of issues which is true of a lot of things like you ever consumed zinc. It can inhibit copper absorption. Like you have to be very careful supplements, which is part of the reason why I
Of really reduced the number of supplements that I consume.
Well, this is still a great segue into that question actually is like what what do you consume these days in terms of
supplements? Not much. I take zinc occasionally. I do find it to help sleep. I do find it to help lucid dream induction, which we've talked about before I find zinc interesting also from an immune perspective. But if you overtake it or you take it to consistently you can cause all sorts of issues. I
I take right now.
B12 and L methylfolate jarrow specifically that is almost
the same levels or is that the y-yeah? Yeah
related, um assisting so that is dependent on my personal blood profile. So that doesn't mean everyone listening to this should take that. Right? And I also am taking right now sis is quadrangular Iris, which kind of has a funny tie into us actually and
Also methylsulfonylmethane or MSM? I'm taking both of those because I'm nursing a wrist injury and I found them to be very helpful with joint injuries or a connective tissue ligament tendon issues. So this is quadrangular. Iris is what I took on during our trip to
China. I took alpha lipoic
acid and cissus Si es es U s-- quadrangular.
Harris you'll figure it out. I took those two together before every meal because we were eating pounds of fucking rice every day. Yeah, and I would be doing workouts in my like skivvies with my backpack. You
remember that once you see temperatures in his underwear doing air squats in front of your bed, thank you cannot unsee that shit. And you said something to the effect of like, we're it's a quit doing you're just getting your fucking underwear.
For sure, and then there was also like we're just getting fatter and fatter and you're getting more and more reps
right? Fuck is going on. That was the most confusing part because we were like a week into the trip and in Glenn and I are just fat as shit from all that rice and you're like six packs are popping out is crazy.
Yeah, so I'm taking that stuff again, but not for the fat loss for the potential joint assistance wrists are huge pain in the ass. I jacked.
My wrist really badly and I want to get back into handstand practice some eager to get it figured
out. All right, actually leading. I want to stay on that for one more quick topic. Someone was asking. How is your body these days you talked about your wrist, but these are three questions real quick. Do you still practice for our body? And what is your approach to longevity? So is there any practices that you're doing now on the longevity side kind of transitioning out out of the I just put need to put Macon but more on the
Longer. Yeah, I would say those are probably inversely proportionate. Right right, the more you try to put Mass on the shorter. You were probably making your life if you're doing over an extended period of time at least but I would say
body.
I'm not in great shape right now. I've had a bunch of injuries which just goes to show like, it's I think it's better to have a few extra percentage points and body fat and more strength than to be lean. And
Sacrifice strength, I think right now I've sacrificed strength for a bunch of reasons. I'm in the jungle. I'm eating pretty poorly and not getting much in terms of resistance training in and so I would say body overall right now is pretty a key and I'll fix that. I have high degree of confidence that I can fix it. So I'm not worried about it which leads to the 4-Hour Body piece.
I still follow a surprising amount of what was in the 4-Hour Body if anything the vast majority of the for our body that was viewed very skeptically was received very poorly has accrued an incredible amount of scientific support in the last 10 years because I was published in 2010. So I'm I am very proud of the 4-Hour Body like that was kind of the tip of the spear with a bunch of areas that has only received more.
More support in the last 10 years. So I'm very happy with that and I would say the general tenets still hold for sure. So the from from the perspective of slow cadence weightlifting Allah comes protocol. I probably wouldn't be eating the same food because I'm gonna try to gain Mass. But using that type of slow cadence or super slow protocol to add muscle mass while minimizing injury potential Absolutely. I'll be doing a bunch of that.
And then there's a bunch of stuff from tools of Titans. So let's not forget. The tools of Titans was basically my update to four hour work week for our body and 4-Hour Chef simultaneously. There's a bunch of stuff in tools of Titans related to say glute medius training related to gymnastic strength training and so on acroyoga that I view as really important component of what I do these days for physical.
Longevity. Yeah, meaning how old you feel I think is how old your joints feel very often and aside from that though like with the longevity stuff. Like am I using Metformin? No, am I using rapamycin know would I consider it maybe at some point but the most likely thing to kill me is heart disease. So really I can focus on so called Longevity drugs, but
For me personally those longevity drugs might take the form of something like in the Zetas mybe probably not a Statin due to the fact that I am a hyper absorber of cholesterol, not necessarily hyper producer. So you need to get really deliberate and surgical about how you approach medication and none of this is medical advice should not be construed as medical advice since who the fuck am I but so talk to your GP, but
I think the
obsession this is going to upset some people the obsession of her longevity is often very misplaced. Like I look I looked at one point at the average life spans of males and my family on both the paternal and maternal lines and if they didn't die really really early which they clearly didn't because they lasted long enough to procreate but if they didn't get wiped out by like typhoid fever in, you know at age 35 or something.
80s pretty much all of them died at 85. They died around 85 fucking everybody and it doesn't matter if it's you know, 20 years ago or
three hundred years. Anyway, it's a good run dude. That's not that bad. It's not that bad. So as far as
is yes as far as is that as the you know, Poland straws like I didn't get the Short Straw I didn't get the shortest straw but it is striving for immortality. I'm glad
are people who are preoccupied by and are spending time on it all things equal which is never the case by the way, but all things equal would I prefer to live to 120 versus 85? Yeah, why not sure but am I gonna do caloric restriction every day so my testosterone falls to the floor and like I lose all my muscle mass and I look like a fucking prisoner of war. No I'm not going to do that. Yeah. Yeah, so I don't spend a lot of time.
Thinking about longevity per se or Ultra long life span. I do spend time thinking about what stupid mistakes I can prevent easily or what medications or supplements or interventions. I can Implement easily that will prevent me from dying earlier than I should based on my genetic
average. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, that's the whole Peter Atia thing, which I think is beautiful just really digs in the family history and says,
Are the things you're going to die from and let's prevent those from happening, you know? Yeah. Yeah, totally this is
like the, you know, the focus on the fundamentals folks in the basics
next question best movie to watch on mushrooms. That's a good one.
I you know, I he depends a
lot on the dose. It depends a lot on the toes like if your micro dosing you can handle one type of movie if you're on like three grams of mushrooms just look at the walls.
Yeah, just fucking chill out and look at a
flower because it's gonna be you know, three three grams is actually navigable for a pretty decent percent of the population. But like five six
grams just lay down lay down. Yeah, just lay down and listen to some really
cheesy spa music and fucking relax because it's going to be an interesting six hours. But but let's just say hypothetically that someone has taken six hundred milligrams three to six hundred milligrams of salt.
Possibly mushrooms dried I would say Spirited Away.
Oh, are you my favorite movie of
all time the animated movie Spirited Away. Well fucking blow your mind. And if if that isn't interesting, I think soundtrack is important to pay attention to do not watch something. Even if it's beautiful like Baraka if it has a weird Moody soundtrack that may not be good for you. So
I would say something my predisposition would be something animated like Lilo & Stitch or How to Train Your Dragon. It was something like that. If you try to get too fancy, if you're like, I'm going to watch a moody black and white French film. You're just asking to get fucking kicked in
the nuts when I was a kid. It was Pink Floyd The Wall. That's what that was. Not that was not mushrooms. That was weed. So I think that'd be a little too intense. Yeah.
Intense or mushroom different? Yeah different. Yeah. Yeah,
my I would say pay attention to soundtrack when in doubt pay attention to
soundtrack. Alright, next question. What is something you have failed at but haven't spoken of people just want to know about your failures Mia. Yeah, they want all the episode number 500 the low light rail.
Let's see something. I feel that but haven't talked
about Heather.
You know you did this you did this series where you went and did a bunch of episodes, you know, you hack things really quickly and you're so good at like consuming books and like getting to the meat of what something is and figuring it out. There has to be something where you were just like I'm going to figure this out and you just fucking suck at it right like
well, I mean honestly episode 1 of the Tim Ferriss experiment when I did parkour which was my insistence. I was like, we're going to do parkour first episode one and I fucked myself.
Up so badly. I mean I had so many injuries like elbow wrist neeght or three of my four quadriceps. These are used eye muscles front of like quadriceps for right I tore severely two or three of them from Impact from jumping off of stuff. It was a fucking disaster like an unmitigated disaster and I don't think I talk to I've talked about that much and so I insisted with in retrospect the
Idiotic reasoning ever that we would do parkour first and what that meant was we had 13 episodes to film we were filming every fucking week without a vacation
for 13 weeks
straight and the first week, I basically became a cripple like I fucking
ruined myself. It was
so bad. And so, you know for weeks afterwards, I'm wearing like medical grade compression pants which take like an hour to get on it.
Like if you imagine you're a 3 I'm not a 300-pound guy. But just imagine you're like a 300-pound guy and you have like elastic Gap Kids fucking
long underwear. They have to get on it takes forever. Like it takes so long and
there are points. I've definitely not talked about this where I was so fucked up after that parkour episode and I'd be wearing these like compression pants just to function so like hobble around like a pirate for you know, whatever. I was filming it.
So two three four and I would get so tired and they took like 45 minutes to get off. It may be an exaggeration, but they took fuck it forever to get off. It'd be like an extra small wetsuit that you have to get off your legs and I would be so tired that I'd be like, I'd get it down to like my mid calf and I'm like fuck it and I would just lay down on the bed like with with these with these compression pants around my run my ankles or my my shins unable to get them off and I'll just
sleep sleep with these
things around.
My ankles so that's one that comes to mind. That's a good one. There are many. Yeah, there are many there are many but that's that's a colorful one. It's amazing.
What? Okay when it happens, what type of dad do you want to be?
Oh, that's a big one
when it happens. What kind of dad do I want to
be?
You got to leave the space Gap in here when we had the episode. Yeah, it's good. Yes thankfully thinking everybody I'm
watching it's like watching a dog just figure out a maze.
I you know, I
think the first I'll go with the first two that come to mind. I just want to be really present and really engaged.
And and loving obviously but I just want to really fucking pay attention and be engaged because I know so many guys including good friends of mine who were just like, yeah, man, I'm fucking missed it like they grow up so quickly and like yeah you missed two years. It's like missing 20 years, so I want to be really present and really engage.
Aged, do you can die. I think it's you have I pay attention to that. I feel like all the Tactical is sleep training versus of attachment versus whatever like I can figure that all out. But if you don't have the prerequisite attention and awareness and engagement than none of that all that stuff is window dressing. I feel like
when I think about being a father I think about some of the attributes that my own dad had that were amazing and I would
Certainly want to continue those on and then other little tweaks I want to do because you know, that's what we're doing. We're kind of pushing things forward. What attributes would you say you did you really enjoy from your father and there are any little tweaks that you would make,
you know, I think my parents did a great job considering the circumstances that we found ourselves in right? I mean, I think a lot like you we didn't have very much money, you know, there's there was not budget for new bikes.
And stuff like that. We made everything go a long way lots of TV dinners lots of TV dinners. I was there too. Yep. You have man does. Yeah God they're worth it was there's The Good the Bad and the Ugly with the TV dinners like those shitty brownies were so delicious the shitty shitty like brownies in the middle square at the top. Those are still good and the Fried Chicken was good, but some of that some of the TV dinners not so great.
We did a lot of Dick Moore beef stew in my house. That was go.
I love that tentacles, you know and there was all these
special moments like some of the celebratory. I have something big happened. We had a celebratory dinner we go to Red Lobster. I'm a Red Lobster we'd have we'd have virgin Daiquiris and immediately get brain freeze and then eat those fried mozzarella sticks and there were so fucking good. So yeah, like I feel like my parents did a really
good job on a lot of levels. I will have the benefit of more time. Right? So if I if I in any way say, I don't have time or I feel like I don't have time. I just want to plant the seed now that that is utter horseshit. Right? Like we make time for the things that matter and
I'm in a much better position than my
parents were.
Finance your dad work a lot if you travel a lot or work a lot or what was the
light and travel a lot, you know, my mom and dad worked a lot and
I'm good at working. Right like you and I are both good at playing certain games and it's very challenging for me at least to sit on the sidelines or switch games when you've spent so much time getting good at certain games. Yes part of the reason. I'm in the middle of nowhere right now is to just create a little bit of space and and prevent myself from over committing to a bunch of new projects just because
I have a void or a vacuum and I'm excited about the you know fatherhood about being a parent. I'm excited for
you. I think it's gonna it's gonna be a fun fun chapter.
Long chapter
long chapter. Yeah the longest chapter
especially at our age man. I just think the thing I think about is just like when our kids are 21, we're going to be so old it's
like going to be crazy. We're going to be we're going to be really old you and I can go to the park with Walker's
together. Exactly. Alright next question from this is I had to say the name because this is a tweet from Huns conduit. So some guys use this business accounts to beat this guy runs conduit, which is great. Tim famously asks, his guess about a message that
Hypothetically plaster on a billboard. Will you asked him about his current message? What would your current billboard message be? You know, I don't like my message is still the
same. Yeah, it hasn't changed much and that is and I've borrowed this from other people but you are the average of the five people you associate with most. Yeah, that's a great way. I like like whatever you spend a lot of time with like you are going to absorb and vice versa, right? They're going to absorb you so.
Really be aware of that like physically emotionally psychologically financially. Yeah. It's so true. I've just seen it confirmed over and over and over and over again for me. And for other
people. Yeah, that's great one. I don't think you can get better than that one. That's great. Next question from Ryan hair transplant question mark would you do a hair transplant?
No, not at this
point. I think Technology's come a long way. Do not knock that right away.
Because there are there's the it looks really good. I have a couple friends have done it. They're not going to be named here. But it can it can look amazing. Look. I mean, here's my
perspective.
There is one reason for me to get hair trend if it's
by the way if this is financial, I will pay for your hair transplant. I'm going to say that right now. I'm serious. I'm serious. I will pay for right now. Go on the record. Do I need Kev Kev, if you like etched in the side like kids play style. Exactly. I number one. I'm very
fortunate to have a reasonably regular Dome. So I don't have a whole lot of Moguls on my
Goal, and I don't mind being bald and I really don't mind it. I think I let into it easily by starting to shave my head when I was like 12 13 and wrestling. So I'm accustomed to it. The second thing is I would get so much shit from people forever if I had some weave like him and if you've ever seen Hellboy, but there's that one guy
who has
As here in
plants and that just looks like Ken doll. I would get so much more shit. Yeah, it's too late. Then I currently do. I would be disinclined and then you know third and I think I was saying this earlier and I cut myself off as like, why do you guys
care? I think 99
times out of a hundred. It's because they want to have they want to be more attracted to women or get laid More Often by having hair like period
. I don't care I don't care about that. Right like I'm very very happy with my girlfriend. We're planning on having a family together and like if I couldn't be with someone because I didn't have hair. I don't want to be with them in the first pass. Like that's your that's that's a that's a very charitable easy layup yellow or red flag for any guy. Who by the way also
that's you did the right thing.
Like the wrong thing is leaving like the sides on and just kind of go and with the ball top like the power donut
exactly. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I'm not look there are a few people who can pull that off. Like if you're what's his name Commander Picard or whatever of Star Trek like if you're somebody that badass you can pull off the power donut. If you're a like a hedge fund manager just just give zero fucks and as a master of the universe and you just like look I can I can move Global markets and
Estimate currencies with one twitch of my pinky finger great then like keep the power donut. I do not have the confidence or the wherewithal or the skill set or the power to make that work for me. So, well, it looks great
just nice and shiny right now the light sitting in the right direction. It's beautiful as a healthy Sheen to it. Like us like a dog coat. All right moving on to the next question your favorite episode in why and I will say that I with the caveat that we you know, you can mention
In the one that you talked about that was really dear to you that you did a few episodes back, but I think outside of that particular episode about the there around the abuse. Yeah, I mean
favorite episode is I get this question quite a bit. It's hard to give a favorite episode because almost all of my episodes have some personal driver behind them. So the reason I do episodes vary so widely that there is objectively no one best even so
Objectively there is no one best it has everything to do with what my goals or challenges might be at any given point in time. I think when I ask you
two questions, I'm going to hold on the me ask you two questions that we can hold this in a little bit favorite Fanboy episode. Meaning I oh my God, I can't believe I had this person my podcast and then I'd also love to know I know who it is this huge Ackman, isn't it? My
right Hugh? Jackman is super high up that that was definitely
A huge one Arnold Schwarzenegger was the first like gigantic fan boy. Yeah episode Jamie Foxx another one. I mean those three episodes are also killer like they weren't just Fanboy and counters, but they were really strong episodes. Yeah, really really strong episodes. So Fanboy moments. There are a ton of them. I mean I've spoken with so many people I never thought I would ever have any interaction with Jerry Seinfeld. I mean, it's a long
It's a long long list, but certainly Hugh Jackman is way up there Arnold Schwarzenegger way up there Jamie Foxx and Jerry and so many others. Those are a few. How about someone that just
really surprised you or you're like, oh I should have this person on then you had him on your like God. Damn. That was a good episode. There are so many give me the macondo. You just have to be one.
Yeah. I love I love the Fanboy episodes, but those are names that people
Automatically know in their household names right BJ Miller who's a hospice care physician and I think the episode was titled some like BJ Miller the man who's helped a thousand plus people to die something like that that episode I had huge impact on me still does then you have people like Mary car who's an author and very well-known Memoir writer.
And teacher who's just incredible that episode is pretty recent Kar Kar are she was incredible?
Let's see here. Honestly. I mean I have to mention again, but just like there are certain episodes like Jamie Foxx or Hugh Jackman where you're like, holy shit. I hope my equipment is working. Yeah, exactly. So fucking good and you're like, oh my God, if this fails I will just have to throw myself out of what I don't like when I
interviewed Elon Musk my show I was like, please do not fail hard drive like, you know, because we're like,
oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, totally totally it's crazy. Yeah. They're still there though. There are those moments.
It's for sure. What was it like for you to interviewee Lon? It was how
I've never I don't we've never talked about it. I mean, he's he's a really cool guy who's super friendly and I've met him a couple times at various parties and stuff and he's always been really nice to me. I think he knew me from back in the Dig days. When I created dig are you know, he was wasn't it was clear to me that it wasn't just some like he had heard of some stuff I had created which was nice because it gives you a little bit of an and a way to have a conversation. I loved it. I thought it was a lot of fun. I mean I I try to ask him some questions that
That were just a little bit like not the ones a standard reporter would ask and so he had a good time with it. We talked what we just talked about. Like I always like to go really really back to his childhood and like some of the entrepreneurial kind of moments. He had growing up and some of the things he was a fan of and some of the comic books when he was into like nobody talks about that, you know, but he talks about his favorite comic books on my show like stuff like that. So it was yeah it was it was a really we talked about SpaceX and some of the stuff that he was doing with hyperloop before it was announced.
Yeah, it was it was awesome night. Obviously, he's had the icon these days it this is a couple years ago. So
Yeah, Tony Stark totally In the Flesh. All right, moving on to the next episode next episode the next question. What do you think about all the recent government UFO footage. Is it
real? Well
you believe in UFOs Ida, I
don't know if it's real in the sense. Do I know? I don't know if the footage is real. I've read way too much about you know, well documented programs like em.
A Ultra with the CIA. And so I mean the tiger it's very hard to know. What is propaganda and what is not what is it in K
Ultra? What is that? This
is this is the deliberate and non-consensual administration of LSD by the CIA as a possible truth serum or destabilizing agent and all sorts of craziness and you have also
We looked very closely at the Stargate program which was utilizing remote viewers or those considered to be remote viewers remote perception and all this craziness. So like Are UFOs real fuck. I don't know. I
will say this
as a big question, but Bob of my pay grade, I will say this though that there are a few places on Long Island that are fairly well,
Known
by locals for having what some people consider UFO sightings and when I was a kid on Long Island, I and a whole car full of people including like a babysitter and some other people also saw some weird object like fly crosses the sky hover for a period of time kind of bounced around and then shoot off at speeds of made no sense. So was that
an illusion was it caused by some type of weather pattern right? Like the lowlights of Marfa in Texas or supposedly created by some type of phenomenon that can be explained meteorologically was it that was it test flights with some type of aircraft being performed by the government which are unknown unannounced was it?
Some type of aircraft from elsewhere. I mean either way it is an unidentified flying object. So do I believe in UFOs? Yeah, I believe in UFOs. Are they aliens?
Cough fucked if I know like I have no idea
but
I'm in favor remain open to the possibility. Yeah.
All right, let's move on to the next question. This one is a little bit. This was a little bit harder than last right? Have you ever tried Viagra? If so thoughts - how is it that we're going to give it to me? Yeah, this is great. Yeah, this is
great. So I have tried Viagra. I've tried everything. I mean, I've tried just about everything - heroin and I actually had a really scary response to a small amount.
Of Viagra, which was I got a shooting pain like a axe pick in the brain pain from taking it which has may be contraindicated from taking. I don't know if I Agra is a what is it if phosphodiesterase inhibitor of some type but I have to be very careful with that stuff because in a small percentage of the population you can have these massively powerful adverse.
It's does that apply
to all the like Cialis and stuff like that or is that
just Viagra? I don't I don't know. I'm not I'm not sure did it did it was the matter is though the Viagra? I'm in a deep. Well, yeah, I mean not to get too graphic here. But yeah, it was fucking fantastic. That's tough.
Why the hell do you think it's so popular
like yeah, it works as advertised. It's like why do athletes use anabolic steroids because they fucking work. All right. I'm intellect. There are certain drugs that really deliver as advertised.
You just have to be aware of the possible side. If I had a really weird experience
of that stuff. That stuff is strange. Well, hold on. You can't let that hang. No I so well, I just feel like it's well, we're a couple glasses of wine and trying to ride that fine line. So I'm going to say this in a very PC way the best I can at this moment in time that will say it a PC. That's okay. So when you take it, you know, 30 minutes later it kicks in and you can tell by like you feel like a flush and it's in your face. Did you get that I kind of like
like tingly flush this in your face. I got a
flush missing my show in.
Okay, so that's enough. So what happens next is things Elevate and when they do so it's like at the it's like blowing a blue balloon to like 12 when it should be at a 10 and you reach down. No. No when you reach down it feels like it's another dudes thing because it's like it's way bigger than you you're used to right because it's here the 12th knob is gone, too.
12 so it's just kind of using that's all it but it does it does make it does make you my God. You're a dragon slayer for a couple hours at least like it's you'd agree with that though, right? Yeah. It is I think dragon-slaying on
viagra's definitely have to make it into the headline of
this episode. It is it is a weird thing. It is definitely worth thing. I bought mine in Mexico of all places. This is like
Yeah, I got to be careful how you got to be careful. Who knows like if it was like an amplified dose or something. But yeah kind of insane could have been Clorox, you know, exactly. All right. Any other for our books in the future? None planned? Are you done? Are you at cheers done with the for our
Yeah, I think so. That's fair. That's fair. Rest in peace for our the for. Our thing was fun for me. Remember I used this place is that uh, he sent you texts of like the for there was a for our laundry the laundry cleaner in SF and I would I do like walk by and take photos of it.
Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I know I've thank you for your service for our I think I am.
I'm I'm done. It's retired as a jersey framed on the wall. Nice What a Beautiful chapter and it was
chapter. It was a good chapter good couple chapters was all right. So what will you be doing at age? 50 and 60. That was the actual questions. Yeah, so it doesn't just retirement. I don't know why they picked those years but like let's just say later in life. Like give me what is Tim Tim look like 20 30 years from now.
Yeah, you know retirement. I don't think that's a thing. Yeah.
I just I sort of enjoy getting amongst it too much. I can't imagine like just like sitting around doing Sudoku all day watching will Fortune or something. I just don't think that's going to be me. So 50 or 60. I mean, let's see. I'm this means still that far off 50, you know, I'm 43. How old are you right
now? 43
fuckin a man 44. This is seven years
away. I know it's crazy
one turn.
A of the locusts and we're 50. So 50. I mean, let's just say I have like, you know, six or seven year old kid that point. I will probably be increasingly cantankerous and salty. I will be increasingly uninterested in Social consensus or social media or
I mean, I feel like that's you today popularity things. It's yeah, so
yeah, I think it'll just be like
Tim plus it'll be like Tim Tim plus
love it. I think there's I think there's a good chance that I will be spending more months of the year with the family in and surrounded by Nature less time in urban environments from an athletic perspective. I would I would anticipate to still be doing things like acroyoga skiing probably weight training at
least once per week. I think they'll become more and more and more important still I will be paying deep attention to and supporting psychedelic research and other aspects of that type of medicine work like it's hard for me to Envision a chi chi huge change aside from focus on family, which I think will be a gigantic shift, but I would hope not to have to contend with any major.
Medical emergencies or crises in my family but TBD I mean 60 if I'm 60, you know, that could be at the point where my parents water both pass which will be a huge transition. I don't know how that'll affect me. It's impossible to predict for me. I just I just don't know. I don't even have a point of reference. Yeah, you know,
let's move on to the next question. We got a couple more left and then we can wrap things up and I do have some.
Extra bonus ones if you want to keep going but bonus bonus do it. I'm almost to the last soccer or a quick soccer one. What's your quote-unquote? Holy shit today sucked drink or drug of choice.
That's a great one. Well,
It depends on at what time of the day I determine that the day is already 6 p.m. For a specific. It's well, hold on. So
if it if I
wake up and I'm just getting fucking Haymakers for like the first two hours of the day and I'm like wow, like today is already sucking donkey dick. This is terrible. Then we I might just fucking call it and have day of mushrooms and
walk through the forest and stick. I'm done tap. I am
complete so that
that's one I would say. Otherwise the one that is ill-advised for me is drinking copious amounts of caffeine right having just like four five six cups of coffee, which it's like on the way up on the way up feel so good and you get so mad. I can like you forget all your worries and then the coin flips and you just feel
like an
anxious mess on the way down. So that's that's a mixed blessing.
Sure, I would say gin and soda like a Hendricks and soda or a custard that I gonna is like a tequila and soda at like dusk. So these days I got 5:30 kind of happy hour. Like you know what I'm not going to try to like squeak this out and grind for another hour hour and a half like, nope gonna call this one at 4:35.
I've if it's really brutal if you're just like why like if I if I'm still in the game, I'm just like limping along with the ball getting crushed by like 500 pound linebackers like yeah. What am I doing this for? This is pointless, then it's a gin and soda or tequila
and soda. What was the gym that you gifted me a botanist? I think you were given those out of one year for run. The holidays was a
botanist you were oh could it could do it, but
honestly, I'd one gin. I love Jin's the best. Yeah. It's so much more so much more interesting.
Vodka, right like it to the the Botanicals in there and it's a fantastic
average. I love I love clean tequila. I love interesting gin and there's something called sotol sot ol which is found in Texas, which is also quite interesting. It's for people who need a
Maybe a comparison it might be somewhere between tequila and mezcal who so a little bit more Smoky Mountain.
Yeah, but not as hard as company called I but yeah, there's the exactly there's something called. There's a brand I think called Desert Door, which makes some really nice so tall. It's pretty hard to get em. I also find that quite interesting. But if you drink enough of that to get plastered you are going to feel it for sure the next day. Yeah. Oh bad like hangover
type.
Stuff that's going on. That's that's it's got that smoky. It's got that Smoky element
right same with mezcal. Yeah, I'll I mean I feel like a donkey's kicked me in the
forehead the fast frame out the next morning like you're just like
like like yeah. Yeah like oh who had a campfire in my mouth right that
one so you mentioned dragone as I think it's important not to skip over that one. Fantastic
tequila.
Yeah, it also fantastically expensive tequila.
They actually make a less expensive version now
couple of them, which is nice. Okay. Yeah Casa dragones The House of the Dragon makes some really nice stuff and I was introduced to
that
pretty funny story. So I was first exposed to that. Am I making you see sick with
this camera camera keeps I think I'm back. I'm going out of focus. I know like zooming in and out. I'm like if I
I drank too much. I can just keep going boom. Praise like the cinematographer like imitation of being drunk
my God, it's making me seasick. Just looking at my own my own image go in and out of focus, but in any case Casa dragones, I was first exposed to when I spent time with a friend of mine who's a former Navy SEAL and he and a bunch of guys were doing weapons training and shooting range.
With you know, all sorts of like a our platform handgun you decide our view name, like all sorts of stuff and their ritual was to then go back to the house disassemble all the guns and clean all the guns while they're all sipping Casa dragones. Oh my God, you made this
simple like so like all the way down to bare metal or like what are you talking about? Just could just clean
them ya take ya it cleaning them. But in some cases either disassembling the the handguns and so on and they're doing
Is very safely, but we're just like sitting around with a bunch of hyper-masculine dudes who are like real professionals. I don't know what I'm doing, but I cleaning guns drinking to sipping tequila, right like no mix is no cocktails just drink it sipping tequila and like it was amazing and it was a great experience and really great group of guys and I had that and I had always had the association with the Kela that it gave you a nasty hangover and I drank so much of this.
Tequila woke up the next day and I felt like a million bucks as like how is that even possible? So did you read
about it? I know what the deal is. It's been filtered 12 times. The dragon is
the well there. Yeah. It's like a more like
a super ultra-filtered is like the cleanest of the clean like it's it that's why it's so expensive. It's
fantastic. Yeah. So if you feel like getting a getting a nice gift for somebody or for yourself. Yeah, that's one option.
All right, two more questions. Does anything make you feel?
All old or does anything make you feel
young?
Who makes me feel old would be aching joints? Yeah, so elbow that I've had elbow surgery on the wrist that I've jacked up. I injured my lower back recently in a stupid accident joint pain. Yeah makes me feel old same dude sighs for sure like muscular pain I can deal with but like joint pain makes me feel old makes me feel young riding bicycles and writing my girlfriend those
to see this.
All right this last question and it's more serious when I wanted to end with this one because I do want you to take it. Seriously, you know, we don't know how much time we have left and I'm curious when you die.
What do you ultimately want to be remembered for?
Huh?
For our Chef for the
stupid meme
videos that I attacked the Kevin twice a week.
We think about that. You know, I don't think any of us are around for that long. I think that kind of over focusing on Legacy.
kin
warp and contort a lot of thinking about
Life and what you pursue and I think it can lead you to pursue things for Prestige and I think Prestige approval guilt shame or all really bad reasons for doing things often times. And
you know,
as we were talking earlier about parenting and what kind of father I want to be and I was sort of talking about awareness.
And engagement being these prerequisites for other things. You can try the Tactical stuff. But if you lack that base level that Foundation the rest of it doesn't really matter. I think that in the last 10 years, especially five years, especially last five months in particular. I've realized that without hope the rest of it just doesn't really matter. Right so like you can give someone the prescription
The how to you should do this you should do that. But without some level of Hope and hope to me is slightly has a slightly different feeling to it than optimism. I think optimism can be a part of Hope, but that hope is broader without without without some element of Hope a lot of that other stuff just doesn't matter and get what gets washed away. So I would like to be, you know, I used to say when people ask me like what would you want to be remembered for like on your gravestone? I was like well as
As a sort of creator of Master students who are better than himself, right? That was an answer that I had and I think now it would be as a purveyor and provider of Hope like someone who's providing hope to people who feel hopeless and not in a misleading not in a Pollyanna ish. Not in a naive way. Like I'm providing hope because I am a test subject right like I'm a guinea pig.
Pig I'm someone who's suffered from severe extended repeated bouts of depression who is on the front lines trying to encourage the testing and research of things like psilocybin and others that show incredible promise for these so-called intractable untreatable psychiatric conditions, whether that's depression or mdma-assisted Psychotherapy for complex treatment-resistant PTSD, right post-traumatic stress disorder or
Opioid use disorder anorexia these things that have really found no home from which they can be treated effectively. That would be one example, you know one dimension to it. So I would say as a as a Seeker as a fellow neater and hopefully spreader
of Hope
Well, that's what I would want. I got to tell you. I think that I a lot of people would agree with this statement and that everything that you've done. I mean when I first met you was at your book launch party for the 4-Hour workweek and then later the 4-Hour Body like that. Those have all been about Hope they've been about how can I improve myself? You know, and how can I live and do things on my own time and by my own design and live a healthier lifestyle and
Now taking it to the more philanthropic side of things and working on Mental Health. Like this is the easy thing for you to accomplish because like you've already done it like this your your career has been all about hope so I think you inspire a lot of people and for that reason so this this that's great. It's a X-Men know it's something to look up to like, I know you and I talked about this and we have a slightly different take on philanthropy and that, you know, I've done bits and pieces of it my take
And it could be the wrong one, but I'm in like the prime of my earning career and I think that I want to like get a little bit more resources so that I can do bigger impact things long term but like you're definitely an inspiration for me on that front and certainly something that I want eventually imitate and figure out how to do is have a bigger impact in that way. So thank you for all that you've done on that and do it. It's been awesome that you'd even share the space with me for episode five hundred. So thank you for that as well.
Yeah, thanks, Kev. Kev. Got it's so you know, I
want to give my give some some additional thanks to my girlfriend so that I don't have my last mention of her in the same answer at the
bicycle
which which is you know, when I was considering.
what to do about sharing my experiences with abuse as a kid I told her about the plans for the book The possible book which would be years off in the future and the possibility of then doing a podcast maybe as a stopgap measure or even a replacement for doing the book because it would be sooner and
Is she just made the point that if you looked at the discrepancy between those two, let's say a podcast coming out in a few months and a book coming out for five years later that there there would be and there are many people who would die by natural causes take their own lives to be a suicide or otherwise not ever have access to the book.
Who would benefit from the podcast and I think that there's there's compounding of wealth and resources.
And you can make many compelling Arguments for if and when to jump into The Fray to try to address problems based on compound interest and so on I would just offer to people who are thinking about this for themselves that they're certain problems that compound also.
And there are certain problems.
Certain subsets of populations and so on who are more easily reached more easily addressed more easily helped now, then they will be in a year or two years because the problems compound at a faster rate than your Capital so, you know that that's that's that's one perspective that I would offer not to say that everybody should immediately jump into The Fray and use as much as they can afford.
Affect change in the world. I don't think that's true for everyone. I think that's absolutely not the case for everyone. But for me at least with some of these mental health conditions and having the ability to set precedent right to create the first center in the world dedicated to psychedelic research to create the first center in the u.s. Dedicated to psychedelic research and Consciousness research offered me a rare window and opportunity to tip the first domino in a way that I know.
I knew would then trigger and unlock all sorts of other developments. Right? So I was able to put in say a million dollars with the expectation that it would generate ten or a hundred million dollars in Impact. So I do think that you got to pick your time. You got to pick your target you really want to be surgical with this stuff and very thoughtful and there are sometimes just like with startups right? There are sometimes
Like oh damn there. Is that one window? Yeah that door opens a crack and that's your shot. Yeah, like you have a real opportunity to make an impact and for me, I just felt that way in the last few years. Yeah, but I'm excited to I'm excited to see what you do to
man. Yeah, it makes it makes a lot of sense if you think about it because there was this little Tipping Point that happened where all of a sudden there was a window to create some research around psychedelic use, you know that because if the government
I had totally locked this thing down. Like I say we were in some country that was clamped down on both the federal and state level. It would be probably like pissing away money at that point right because they wouldn't you wouldn't even be able to fund research. But you have you found a window the momentum was going in the right direction and now, you know, we're seeing benefits from that in terms of it being legalized like an organ and other places where this could be real therapies going into people in the next year or so, you know, which is really
cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's moved a lot faster than I ever could have hoped.
And there's there are going to be challenges. They're going to be setbacks are going to be messes. They're going to be
players in the arena with less than pure motives, which is to be expected and that's all that's all part of the game. So
yeah. Well the last thing is crew last thing I want to say is in be curious to know how you were able to do this in yourself. Is that one of the things that I want to push more forward especially given that I have a couple daughters and I think that more men should be vulnerable people like able to talk about like you've talked about suicide.
Oppression and child abuse and like all these really tough sensitive topics and you know, I've certainly talked about couples therapy and the abuse my father gave my mom and things like that like we need to encourage more of that and I just want to say thanks to you you've helped me be more open with myself and my audience about those things and I think it's that get like starting that conversation. Oh Tim can talk about it. I can too. It's such an important thing that we all needed to do. Thanks, Kevin. Thanks man. This is a true loud you'd
like it really is like it's it helps me when I you talk about this if I can talk about it. I can I know that's the same with so many other people. So, so anyway, thanks brother. Cheers to you brother. Congratulations, like 500 wishing you to 500 more or a thousand more will see when do you hang it up by the way, how many you think you got left in
you? I have no plans to hang it up good this point, you know, this this gives me this is this is joyful for me. It's fun for me and if
Stops being fun. It's either time to hang it up or more likely it's time for me to change something and I've just succumbed to his to some Temptation that I need to fix. Right like for this episode. Let's take this
episode as an example number
500 right? I could have done like Lessons Learned over 500 episodes and done like a monologue right instead you get Viagra
delicious. Yeah, which
is more fun. Right? It's more fun for me. It's more fun. It gives me more energy it gives me.
Or pleasure. Like this is a good time. And like you said, you don't know how much time you have left nobody does and so it's like if you're not having
fun at least
in my life like
chances are it's my fault. Yeah
fucking fix it the you know, and if the choices you're making your default choices are the way things are set up aren't working.
Change it
experiment. Try something else. So for me the way that you know, I used to do six episodes a month with the podcast. I cut back to four on average and I used to handle say sponsorships in this that the other thing is certain way and then I changed it because it was starting to feel like an obligation and I was starting to procrastinate and not look forward to it. So, you know, this is I think a game of iteration and what what might give me joy today might not
Not give me joy tomorrow and things change they evolve over time. But I love doing the podcast so wouldn't surprise me. If I do another 500 another thousand and then take a look and reassess. Yeah, I
think that really it doesn't really matter where you are in life because I remember, you know, when I was not like being a VC and doing these things I left all of garden which had good tips and unlimited breadsticks to work at computer City for Less pay, but you know,
Was a hell of a lot happier when I was working a computer City that I wasn't all Garden. So it's like you just gotta do it. I'll change it up if it's not working switch it up. You gotta switch it up man. So good to see ya. I miss you brother it miss you to see you in person sometime soon. So TV, let's get these shots at the arms. He made it happen. Seriously exactly, right
and to everybody listening. I love you guys, you know, I really
So deeply appreciate everybody listening. It gives me the opportunity to play gives me the opportunity to push to challenge myself also to try to do things. I don't think I can do with respect to this podcast to Wrangle people. I think can't be wrangled and also just as important to shoot the shit and talk about
viagra people like having a
so, so I really really appreciate everyone who tuned in to this podcast.
Test and I know this has been a Loosey Goosey banter filled episode, but this is what I wanted to do and ultimately the only way I'll keep doing this. This is if I have some fun along the way thanks for having me Tim. That was awesome. Yeah, brother. I'll see you soon.
Hey guys, this is Tim again. Just a few more
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