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Hello boys and girls. Ladies and germs, this is Tim Ferriss. Welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferriss show where it is. Usually my job to sit down with world-class performers of all different types to tease out the habits routines favorite books and so on the you can apply and test in your own lives and I have said that ladies and germs hundreds of times now, it is crazy to think that the 10th anniversary is this week officially of the podcast and there's no better way to commemorate such a
Wild Milestone something. I never could have imagined then with my good buddy, Kevin rose and a little tequila because as many of you listeners know Kevin was my very first guest for episode 1 way back in April 2014. So this time rather than me interviewing someone who is more or less a stranger to me or less known to me. We have a very special episode. I recorded with Kevin at South by Southwest in Austin, Texas. So for those who do not know who
Is Kevin Kevin is a partner true ventures in early-stage Venture Capital firm that has invested more than 3.8 billion in a portfolio of more than 350 companies. He's also a Serial entrepreneur has faded a bunch of companies. He's an all-around wacky and crazy guy and we go way way way back. He also hosts the Kevin Rose show sound familiar Tim Ferriss show Kevin Rose show. That's Kev Kev row row, which that's an inside joke for very early listeners which offers glimpses of the future into investing artificial intelligence Wellness.
And culture featuring conversations with experts at the Vanguard of their fields. And for those people who want bonus credit. You can send a hashtag Kev Kev roro to a Kevin rose on Twitter. And if you don't get that joke, don't worry about it in this episode. We Meander all over the place we catch up as we do discussing the dangers of audience capture Kevin's Bitcoin ETF strategy novel mental health treatments, including one very very Innovative treatment that I'm incredibly excited about for not just depression.
Ian but also anxiety which does not involve any drugs modern dating has empathy and its cousins testing these types of things time dilation how to increase hopefully all in your own life in the reasons. You might want to consider that Mike Tyson versus Jake Paul and so much more. So let's get to it shall we go to Kevin rose.com to learn more about Kevin or follow him on Instagram at Kevin Rose and I hope you enjoy this one as much as I did 10 years. What a
what a thing to say and I never thought it would ever last this long started off as a lark a little experiment and I ended up with the best job in the world. So thank you for listening gives me great joy to have these conversations and provide these and that's enough for my intro. Thanks for listening everybody.
Good afternoon, everybody. Hello. Thanks for being here. Hi, Kevin. Tim Tim. We're doing it kept cover doing it. This is our first ever live, I think so, I think we've always just been at your apartment or house drinking tequila. That's usually how it goes. It's very formal Affair. So thanks for being everybody. Yeah and Cheers Cheers with our water with our quote unquote water.
It's good to see everyone. Thank you for coming out. This is awesome. We have we have a lot to talk about in a lot to celebrate because mr. Tim Ferriss has hit 1 billion downloads of his bod. Guess. Yeah. So you're the first to hear this it actually happened mid last year and I was waiting for the right time to talk about it. And so I figured why not talk about it today. So hell of a milestone who would have thought I mean so many Bots that are 20
box and a half after our first episode where I asked you if you had to be a breakfast cereal, what would you choose and why and then he busted my balls relentlessly and that continues. Yeah, some things stay the same and 10th anniversary is coming up. Yeah, ten years. How long are you going to keep doing this? I'll keep doing it. As long as it's fun. I still enjoy doing it. I'll probably tighten things a little bit in the sense that return to some Basics really try to be aware of not automatically following the
In terms of Trends or new platforms. I think that's a dangerous seduction can be helpful, but you want to be thoughtful about it. So I'll probably back off of video in a lot of ways as one example and especially personally will back off of short form video not because there's anything inherently bad about it, but that's just not my game. So I like to choose games where there's some Venn diagram overlap of energy in for me recharging and also capability. Yeah so good.
Ian that I like to ask friends, I like to ask myself is you know, what is easier for you than other people whatever that is and typically you'll have an advantage there. You either have some particular skill or you have some particular type of endurance that will give you a competitive Advantage not they have to compete it's not Zero Sum, but holy shit is podcast and crowded it is really really crowded and there's some very very very talented interviewers out there. Yeah. It's become a much more saturated.
Rated red ocean of sorts and the practice for me as I pause at 10 years will be to think about how I can create more blue oceans for myself, which I find more exciting. But if it's 15 years 20 years, I'm going to be having these conversations no matter what? Yeah. The question is do I record them and then put them on a podcast. I don't know but I'll continue to have these conversations. So my feeling is why not just record them. It's not a heavy lift when you think of back.
Over say those last 10 years there has to be not no slamming way, but there has to be some really challenging interviews that you've had in terms of just like someone was just so sharp. You couldn't keep up or just like oh God. I was really hoping this would go better like any fun stories. You don't maybe not the this would go better but like who was just like so sharp. They just absolutely blew you away. Well, there's so many I mean there are a lot. I mean Martine rothblatt comes to mind as one who is just
Ratably incredibly sharp. There are many others. I can tell you one where I was the most intimidated and it showed up in the recording which was with Ed catmull of Pixar at the time who was the first person I interviewed who I had not had any previous contact with and we got on had no established Rapport, of course, very nice guy very sharp, and I was so nervous I'll Flash Forward and
You the punchline on Twitter and other places I saw feedback dozens of tweets that said something like great podcast, but mmm dot dot dot mmm and I was like what the fuck and I went back and I listened to it and every time Ed said anything I was like Mmm Mmm Mmm. Super Japanese. I can say that I used to live there and I was like, wow, I am like
compulsively nervously indulging myself with this Tech and when these days we would fix something like that, but at the time I was like still work to do who is the biggest I have to say. I think I can probably guess this but in terms of like Fanboy, I mean obviously Arnold now you're best friends with we see you pictures is your skiing you guys play chess you do all this shit together. All right, almost have been a huge one for you to huge. Huge Ackman must have been also huge. Yeah, huge Jackman. He's a large man.
And everything you would hope him to be as a side note. I would say there were a few inflection points in terms of guess because at the time celebrities on podcast was pretty uncommon and a-listers of podcasts quite uncommon. I would say Arnold was certainly one that first conversation for me. Tony Robbins was also another that was a big one and a lot of these folks did their first podcasts on the temporary show, which was also really fun for me Jamie Foxx took a year and a half two years to get booked.
And that just blew my mind. He is the ultimate performer on every level Jamie Foxx and Hugh Jackman. I would say certainly standouts in terms of decathletes of entertainment. They can do everything. It's incredible. So I'd say those standout certainly as a couple of inflection points and it's just been experiment after experiment and it's very personally driven and that is to keep my interest high and it's also to try to counteract any
Pulse to chase Google Trends and whatever might be in the news cycle, right? So for instance, there was a year where my first interview with Balaji went parabolic and completely insane in terms of downloads. I mean Millions upon Millions upon millions of downloads and there was this one where he got a lot of predict predictions, right? He did. Yeah predictions, right? I would say that in that particular gives me an internal conversation and I think that you have to be very careful about your audience shaping you
you can become a caricature of your most extreme views or behaviors. And if you allow that to drive your behavior, you can become the masks that you wear and I've seen that we both seen that with folks who have their most extreme views and headlines reinforced on say YouTube and then they suddenly
Replicate that and emphasize it and they become that person they become the actor on the stage. So you have to be careful of that and the impulse was to do more crypto more crypto more curved. I said no, we're not going to do that actually going to do 0 crypto for a while just to make it clear that our priorities for the show are a little bit different. So I continue to be thrilled by conversations. I've had a lot of fun and I'll keep doing it as long as it's interesting because if it's not
Interesting for me. It's not that's going to be clear to the people who listen. Do you know, I mean kind of percent. Yeah, we got a lot to talk about have a lot to talk about and we have much more limited time than we would normally have 47 minutes left. So let's jump into it. Sorry what me sir. You start. Alright, so we've come up classic random show style with a handful of things to just be S about speaking of crypto. I mean, it's having a moment again. It is obviously very cyclical type environment like we're back up things are going crazy. I did.
Something wild and we always do this weird thing where we say not weird, but important thing we say not investment advice very important over the years when you leave various jobs you tend to have like a little 401K sitting over here or if you've done a Roth IRA or something like that. The nice thing about the fact that we actually have ETFs now is that you can put actual crypto you buy these actually do you have sort of crypto? I mean, we all saw that that got approved and so what I decided
Do was take all those retirement accounts and there's like three or four of them and just convert them all to bitcoin ETFs and this sounds crazy and I'm not saying that this is for everyone the certainly I believe their operation. It's not for everyone but the nice thing about it is that at retirement you get all those gains tax free and the thing that people don't know if there are gains if it's our game. Yes, that's right if there are gains but the thing that people don't know is that there are so many competitors.
- ETFs that are out there right? You got BlackRock you have Fidelity Franklin Templeton, you've got probably another dozen or so and they all charge management fees. But if you take a look behind the scenes in actually peel back who's providing the services underneath these, you know just takers it's largely coinbase Fidelity is the only one I think that does their own custody of actual crypto. There might be one or two others, but almost everyone is going based on the back end so really
the end of the day what you want is the lowest fee and so Franklin Templeton has the lowest expense ratio of all of these and so I just moved everything into Franklin templeton's ETF and just keep it that way and then at retirement 59 and a half you get to start taking disbursements of that and if there are gains you get them tax-free, so it's kind of a fun little hack to do, you know, just if you want to see that upside over, you know, next couple of decades if there is upside
And take it out tax-free. Obviously, if you're just going to go buy and hold Bitcoin why pay the fees right? There's tons of exchanges you can go and pay less you want to pay an annual fee like you would with an ETF, but if you're going to get a tax free account that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. So that's my one little fun little thing. I did the last couple of weeks. I've had a lot of fun little things last couple weeks, but would be second place on the roster. Well, we sold proof. So with my inattention sure over the last few years went to yoga Labs, which I'm happy found.
Home at a place that is actually building. You know, what I consider to be a very high quality game with a micro economy and something that has some real legs to it that hopefully will turn into something that is durable that is large. I mean they want to build the quote. I heard was kind of Roblox for adults which is like, you know an infrastructure where you can go and build and create worlds inside of the 3D environment that has its own built-in currency in an economy.
Powered by you know and of teas and actual assets inside of that world. So I realized finally he came to the stage where after being a couple of years in I know I'm not the hardcore Degen. I'm not going to be getting there on stage trying to like tell people things help people like propped up and up and up. Yeah. Well, I mean we talked about this at length, you know a podcast to go one last time. We did the random show but you know, I want to find a good home. So it was no easy feat to go and work and try and find you know Someone Like You Go. Whoo.
Anyone's going to make it good Lord. I hope you know for sure you do. So that's been that's been a nice kind of transition and new move. So personal question related to this my experience as someone with front row seats to your entrepreneurial Journey as every time you have an exit or finish a company you say I'm never doing a company again. I don't want again never again and then six months later another company. So if you were me, what odds would you give Kevin Rose to sticking to that 99% I'm not going to start another.
A company. No, I'm fine. Well, here's the thing. I realized but doesn't this is the true story like people that have followed the stuff and I won't hurt me. Don't hurt me no more. Don't hurt me. Don't hurt me more more gonna start going down. He brought in Tequila behind the scenes. You're not supposed to uh, so it's all my fault a little bit such an enabler. There we go. We might get kicked off stage. Now. I had to had to come back with something. That's all. Yeah, so oh, yes.
Here's the deal like the one thing I did realize what this startup two things is that anytime you tie finances to a start-up like meaning like people's Financial well-being. It is a whole nother level of emotion that you get from people that are participating in what you do and that's the most challenging startup I've ever faced and then the second thing I realized is that like I love that early stage ideation like, you know coming up with the idea of 40 fasting early on before it was a thing and or dig in the early days.
As I don't like the scaling aspect appreciate the one who out there somebody in a dig but I don't appreciate this killing. I'm just not good at it. It's not in my DNA to be able to manage the call it when you're just getting started. It's the 10 things you need to do and then you get to five to ten people 15 people 20 people and all of a sudden there's a motions involved and not everyone's up to speed and there's a lot of more of the just logistical management of humans.
Which is quite challenging for me personally, I like the idea side of things. So I'm done. I mean, I'd much rather focus on things like content creation and hopefully finding and seeing around corners early enough with the podcast where we can expose people to the next big thing and they decide whether they want to get involved or not. Not me creating that next big thing. Yeah, and four people have been paying attention for a long time. Kevin is given previews of the future many many times on the random shelling.
Well on this podcast, so I do think your superpower one of your superpowers is either super early stage or actually Public Market super mature, but not in between. Yeah so much in between. So I want to switch gears a little bit and mention something that I'm incredibly excited about which is the most impressive. Let's call it mental health intervention that I have encountered in the last 10 years. So as some of you may know I've been very involved with supporting a lot.
of research basic science and so on related to psychedelic compounds and psychedelics is therapies that has been because I believe they can really change the lenses through which we look at Psychiatry mental health and so-called mental disorders completely due to some of the effect sizes and durability of say effects on complex PTSD treatment resistant depression so on but I'm actually tool
Eric just like with startup investing. I'm looking for uncrowded Bets with super high leverage potential outcomes. I'm quite agnostic about the tools and I will say and you and I've talked about this privately a little bit but in the last let's call it year, especially the last six months. I've done a very deep dive on a new iteration of an older technology, which is TMS transcranial magnetic stimulation. So this is a type of brain stimulation.
The technology is existed for a number of decades but the protocols and the neuro targeting is Advanced really quickly. There was there's full subreddits where you could go and learn how to do it yourself at home. Don't DIY this do people in their league having burns on their skin. Ya doing it. Yeah, this is Darwin Awards territory that don't do this guy's in part because you can make things a lot worse. If you don't do it the right way, but to jump to the punch line. I have gone through two rounds of
something called accelerated TMS. You can learn a lot about this by looking at a number of scientists including Nolan Williams out of Stanford. I did an interview with Nolan on the podcast for people who want to do a deep dive and they developed what was previously known. It's gone through some rebranding the same protocol, which is a very condensed protocol for administering TMS. So you have these magnets they elicit and this case Theta bursts and typically you might have TMS treatments over the
Of many weeks many months there compressing 50 sessions and to 10 days or actually 50 sessions in 25 days. Excuse me pause for one second though for people that don't know. What is this look like for you. So you said magnets? I'm thinking like, I don't know what I'm thinking but like what are you actually doing? Are you looking should up to your head? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but you doing it at home. You're not doing it home you're hooking. So you are in a clinic or lab and there are different iterations of this. So my first round was with a
A company called brain Sway and they use a particular H7 coil. They're developing new technologies. That's effectively a helmet that you then attached to your head with a chin strap and based on specific targeting depending on the condition you're trying to address which could be depression treatment resistant depression could be generalized anxiety disorder could be OCD any number CD right Eda? Sure. Everyone's got their thing if there is magnetic Viagra, then there's a whole new business I need to invest in. So yeah.
Sure, and then the second round was with Magnus Ventures and a slightly different technology, but it effectively looks like a paddle that is placed on the head and they use computer vision and pretty sophisticated targeting but the upshot of this is going into it. No one will be surprised. I remember when I had my first diagnostic interview with one of these psychiatrists and we went through this long multi our process and they said, you know, you score x y and z
and it seems like you have moderate to severe OCD and they're like this might take a little while. I know this is heavy news if you need to take a break and I was like are you kidding me? No one saw the surprise to no one. Okay, let's move on this. So I went in with pretty high assessment scores for just to simplify the whole thing OCD which looking at my family you'd be like, yeah, obviously and then anxiety and a lot of long-term listeners will know bouts of depression.
And that also is pretty much kind of genetically hardwired.
Did these two sessions and with three months so far of durability no longer meet any diagnostic criteria for any of those. It has been the most durable noticeable on a day-to-day week-to-week basis change in my state that I've ever experienced. Can you give me or if you care to share? Can you give me something like let's just say on the OCD side where you were doing it previously. You have the treatments announced. Yeah.
Yeah, I give examples and I should say your mileage will vary and the sample sizes are still very very small for Accelerated TMS, which is I'm an early stage guy to write like I like to get involved but there are many unknowns many open questions. They're still in I want to say sub thousands in terms of subjects in some cases for say OCD. It's probably fewer than 200 would be my guess. I'm making up some of these numbers, but I don't think they're very far.
So there's still a lot to figure out but as an example, I've had lifelong onset insomnia where my brain will just not quiet down, you know, my mind is like I've been waiting all day to talk to you, you know, and it can take me an hour or two hours to fall asleep in 3 months. That's effectively gone to zero. None of that. That's crazy. Best sleep. I've had in a VIN decades do you look at
Our data as well to see like it might getting the proper deep sleep my you know, I haven't gone super granular. I recognize the how that could be helpful in a sense, but I really feel like we can Outsource our awareness to devices and metrics where it's pretty well, you know, when you wake up the effect size is large enough. It should be pretty obvious and I will say there are some people who respond inversely to this.
It can worsen some people's conditions. I've seen a number of lives transformed. We have the most data for depression by far and if you talk to a really competent best educated psychiatrists who have looked keep abreast of the latest technology. They will say finally TMS is delivering on what we hoped. It would deliver like the promises. Finally. Finally. We're seeing some of the results were hoping to see so there's been so many devices even at home devices that claim to do, you know,
Ms. That you can you can literally I've seen them on Amazon but here's the real question is like okay, obviously, you did all the proper due diligence around figuring out who's the best of the best in this business is actually doing the real science how soon until the actually propagates out to clinics where you would feel comfortable saying? Okay Now's the Time when the average person can go and do this. It's hard to say I will say on a widely distributed basis, but that's also like
Uber black got all the criticism early on and then those people subsidize the development of we're X and overtime costs went down and that's how the price well, I would say it ranges at this point because insurance will not cover accelerated TMS least as far as I'm aware from let's call it if we're looking at competent well-trained outfits were vetted five to Fifteen k for that five-day period but here's the thing depending on your conditions, depending
Hang on your resources. If you were to ask me how much would you pay to go back 20 years and have this treatment I be like take half my net worth. It's fine that biggest change the payoff is so noticeable. Now, it's not a silver bullet nor are psychedelic assist therapies, by the way, it's not one shot one kill with conditions. So most people will go back four boosters every three to six months for say a single day of treatment not necessarily five days, but
The when I say effect size people can look this up, but the magnitude of change and durability is so far beyond pretty much any conventional treatment that I can think of especially if you exclude maintenance therapies that are really just covering symptoms or suppressing symptoms. I'm very very excited about this in terms of time. I couldn't tell you I think that it will be more widely available at retail where people pay out of pocket in the next 6 months to 12 months.
How will someone know if that is been the same thing that you're doing? Is there some type of like certification or what do you look for because I've seen these types of clinics. I've seen it being offered in various places. I would look for people who have real clinical experience or working with established hospitals and have some Bona fides. There's a lot of fly-by-night TFS operations just like there are lots of Renta shamans unlike Craigslist and Facebook who did
Weekend yoga course in Costa Rica and suddenly they're going to save your soul. Probably not a great idea. Similarly if it's like, yeah, we run a you know dentist's office and we offer TMS. Maybe you don't do that or like the people are like we will fix your nails and give you some Igloo tied like that you mix in the bathroom, like maybe you don't do that. So I think the, you know, Common Sense applies, but it has been a really fascinating and the reason you don't want to DIY it or one of the many many reasons you do on DIY it is
that you're dealing with some very sensitive circuitry this whole thing in our heads as far as I know is powered on roughly the electricity of a lightbulb. We really don't know how it works how we are able to function at such a high level. I suspect they're all sorts of and this is true for all factions, like Quantum effects and many many complicated mechanisms that we just do not understand and when you're applying a magnetic pulse to your brain, and this is simplified, but you're either
Debating or deactivating enhancing or suppressing some degree of activity or a network of activity. And if you screw that up, you can get the opposite of what you're looking for. These are any real time like feeling like when you're sitting there are you like seeing she feels like someone flicking the side of your head either no visuals or anything, but you feel like someone's flicking the side of your head and each day you feel like you ran out of a mental ultramarathon like if you were cramming for the LSAT every day.
Or 15 hours straight that is the degree of mental exhaustion. It's very tiring. Do you find that it's improved your cognitive tasks? Like are you like able to yeah, I guess there any performance-enhancing benefits this as well. Well, I do think TMS is going to be used for performance enhancement. I think it could be used for sports and has been many things. So I do think especially in the world of anti-doping and so on that athletes are going to start to use TMs pre-competition for enhancing who knows visual Acuity reaction speed that's going to happen for sure.
You can already use TMs to change trait hypnotizability. Like they want to make people more susceptible to being hypnotized you can use this is going to get super wild really quickly. I will say that one thing. I have noticed on the Plus or negative side, depending on how you look at it is that I've been so much less productive in the last few months. You seem really chill, right? Yeah, super chill. Here's what I would say. I wouldn't trade the productivity for my current sense.
It's of calmness and I was chatting with a therapist about this and they said well, I think for a lot of people that anxiety is used as a fuel to work to basically run away from things not run towards things and I was like, yeah, I could see that that doesn't seem shocking to me. So, you know question. I've tried to ask myself with a lot of different projects as am I running away from something or I running towards something that seems a very important distinction to make and also another reason not to
This is in a lot of cases. You're let's just say in the case of anxiety. So you have too much fight or flight or freeze. Let's just say so you want to dampen that a little bit so you can move around without being a head case. Okay, great. You still need some of that fight or flight in your life. So you can over dampen that or maybe you want to increase your parasympathetic response. This is going to be very personal. I didn't really think I'm talking about this probably but so there's a shorthand in medical school they say,
And shoot in other words parasympathetic to get an erection sympathetic to orgasm. Both of those are really important. So after I got my sympathetic smashed I couldn't orgasm for like two weeks and I was freaking the fuck out. I was like did I just completely screw up my hardwiring? Like I'm never going to orgasm again that seems like I tax to pay fuck, you know was the engine they're scary. Scary moment like you you didn't have a problem with the point. No, no. Okay. Who's this?
The finish the shoot that was brown man. Jesus me. So like that could freak you out or let's say like classic Tim Ferriss like early like trying the craziest shit, you know, I'm taking the bullet. So other people don't necessarily have to but these are all reasons why you'd want to buy a kit on Amazon and just start snapping your brand while you're watching Netflix. Yep. All right, unless you're fast and you need to slow down, you know, if they've somebody else wants to run that No.1 like knock yourself out, but I'm not gonna do that. Yeah. All right.
Moving on. All right, that's so last question. And then we can move on. Is there a website or anything? We're you went. Like, where did you go if someone's listening is and they like I want to go where Tim well, yeah. I I mean this is where I would like to have in this is not for any reason other than I'm going to defer on that just because I want to have some more experience. Also. I want to do a follow-up. I want to see what the durability looks like before I start recommending shit. So I will do that. I'll have more to say about.
There's but for people who want to do deep dive. Dr. Nolan Williams and the podcast that I did with him touches. A lot of this. I will also say just a quick note, which is there are some theories around say depression which are not chemically focused. So instead of like, oh certain to balance this imbalance, which is a little Antiquated in a bunch of Senses. It's not that it isn't a non variable but it doesn't seem to be the primary determinant. It could be that different structures in the brain are firing.
Airing out of sequence and you can use the TMS to correct that sequence. So instead of firing like BAC, it's like oh, well, let's slightly tweaked that system. So it's firing in what we see in normal healthy is which is a PC pretty interesting. Yeah to be able to basically just reset the trip wire sequence something. I think we'll be hearing a lot more about in the next handful of years and it is better tolerated than most medications like from a risk profile perspective for most people and
Very rare cases, it can trigger seizures like there are adverse side effect potentials, but for the vast majority very well tolerated. So I'm excited about it because for instance psychedelic assisted therapy is contraindicated for lots of people. There are many people who should not take this or engage in in that type of therapy too many risks involved people would say Borderline Personality Disorder with family history of schizophrenia Etc, but they wouldn't necessarily be automatically excluded from
from doing something like accelerated TMS. So that's exciting to me.
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All right. We've got 22 minutes left what you got the kind of Soph. So one of the things that dawned on me at South by Southwest and I'm curious to get a will do a pull at some point here, but one of the things that's really challenging at least for me personally is like when we go to these events, are you go to events and Gathering social Gatherings. I'm okay on stage. I'm okay interviewing folks, but I actually don't like social events. I get a little anxiety around them. Yeah, and it's largely because it's like the goddamn that tequila before him exactly.
The social lubricant does help but it's largely because it's a lot of kind of like small talk, you know, if we're living like this and that right totally I had this fantastic guest Charles duhigg recently on the podcast just a couple days ago great author. Yeah, fantastic called superconductors how many people like have a hard time at events? Like we're a raise of hands instead of curiosity. A lot of people this is challenging thing. And so those icebreakers and all that shit. I don't know what to say and
This author was fantastic. So superconductors is the book that I just am in the process of reading right now and it's really about a couple of things like one. How can you get to a deep conversation quickly and then how to build trust with the person you're having a conversation with and that could be used for relationships like First Dates. It can be used for eventually, you know working business Partnerships. How is trust actually formed in terms of social interactions and
A lot of it comes down to the questions that you ask and actually the follow-up questions that you ask and then the reciting of what the person said to make them know that you actually heard what they were saying and so it's just a fascinating fun topic and I was just curious like is that something that you've ever had issues with or have you ever studied how to create these like lasting long bonded kind of like connections with other humans? They have I think about all the time you really? Oh, yeah for sure and I'm also I
Can pretend to be the extrovert and play the extrovert on stage like this where I'm safely at a distance talking to one person in front of a lot of people but I am very introverted you seein this. Yeah. It's like if I'm at a big group dinner, I'll take 20 bathroom breaks and snot because my prostate is all that's because I need to do Lamaze breathing in the bathroom deck. Okay? Okay, you know smile and I can get back out there. So I've thought about this a lot because what
And also is that if you study this type of thing, it makes you more comfortable and less overwhelmed in these circles. Yes, so it is not only helping the person or making the person across from you feel more comfortable in my case helps me feel a lot more comfortable. So what do you learn from this Buck on any particular? Yeah. I mean there's a couple things one Russia's fault questions. Yeah one is a breakfast cereal. What would you be eating that on that question, but that was a good first podcast question. The one thing that you do is you write down five things.
You could talk about when you're at this event or questions. You might want to ask and there was this research study that was done that people that wrote down these questions and they put them in their pocket. They never use the questions but it puts them at ease knowing that they have the backups in their pocket and then it led to more natural conversation. And then the second thing is just really going in and being naturally curious about the person and asking like if you were saying hey, I just tried this new, you know, brain stimulation technique would be like
That sounds really fun. Like that's a dead end to that right you would say like, well, I've read a little bit about this. But like can you tell me more about how it's actually helped you and like, you know you it's like what you just did. Yes, exactly. I was I was actually knitting. Yeah, I feel very at ease with you. Yeah exactly. I'm gonna go anywhere I could go there but it is a one thing where there's like these little tactics, but the interesting thing is you're not faking it because I the first thing I asked him I was like,
Like well that feels like you're kind of Faking it. You're just kind of like, oh, I've got these tactics. I'm going to go use these tags because know once you start using these you build a muscle you get comfort and then it naturally just happens to where you can walk into a social setting and you'll have that muscle and the comfort is there the anxiety is gone and it flips it from something that is like should I go to the vendor not to like I can actually Thrive at this event because for me you walk out of an event and I'm like, oh my God.
Run a marathon, you know like you feel emotionally drained and it turns it into something. That is actually you probably have a friend where they walk out of the vents and you're like Gary vaynerchuk love the fuck. Does he do what he does like the dude get but he's like a different matter is yeah. He's got with different batteries every batter is yeah and it's like you watch someone like that and you like how do you feed off of that versus getting drained from it? And it's not there's a lot of tactics they're saying I just want to throw it as a fun book to attend to and it was it was a really fun podcast.
That we did. This is a side note, which is related to something. You said about having the backup topics and the never using them. Yeah a friend of mine Neil Strauss have known forever very funny skilled author. He was also a journalist for a long time and interviewed dozens of the top celebrities and politicians and so on of the era and he would do tons of tons of prep. He would have all these questions written out on a piece of paper and Fold It Up put his pocket and never look at it for the interview.
It was just to have that confidence and comfort looking hit a dead end. You've got something to fall back on right? Yeah, and I would also say quite apart from that part of how I have resolved for myself. Some of the social anxiety is just assume that anyone you meet like everyone knows everyone in the sense that if you go to a party with 30 people and you talk to one person for the whole night that is not a waste of time even if you misfire over time having that habit
It's a very small world. Oh, here's a good one Speaking of talking to one person. Have you ever found yourself in a conversation where you're like, I gotta get out of this conversation, right? You want to move on to the next person abort abort. This is a really good hack. Actually, he told me he wanted some heroin and they're like what exactly do you offer the mayor when they like, I'm gonna go that way. No, will you do this is a brilliant one was one of my favorite ones that he dropped on my podcast that Kevin was like, um, what he did is he
Said that what you can do is what you want to do is you want to go in there and you want to say Hey, listen, I have some other people here that I need to go have a conversation with but I want to ask you one more thing about what you were just saying because then it's not that I'm not interested in what you are saying it is you're not just you're just missing yourself. You're saying I'm going to do this thing, but tell me a little bit more about what was so interesting about you. Yeah, a really fascinating little hats a good softening instead of like hey my cats on fire.
So sorry exactly. Yeah, I want to give people a little Scooby Snack which is totally unrelated to zapping brains or point and shoot this his if people want to hear something that 99% of you will hate I give it to you. Anyway, this was I'll give credit to S. I'm not going to mention her full name, but there's a band called ginger J inj ER this is a Ukrainian metalcore band. It is super hardcore. The range is impressive with the vocalist.
Soft it's very hardcore. But this is just me and I've been listening to it Pisces. Let's start with that track. And so if you want something really strange to listen to you're welcome. This is the random show. It's the random show got to live up to the name. Okay. Let me get low. I'm gonna give you one then sewn a so hn yes yard is you've been texting me Non-Stop about song. So it is amazing underrated. I mean, he's got some tracks to have like millions of views but like underrated like amazing music just to chill out to so as
So Ahn Soo Ahn also the name of a great Finance conference unrelated. All right. Okay Android / Gemini. I want to hear about this. Okay, I'll hit one real quick. You hit one real quick. And then we're gonna come up on time. But we have 14 minutes. Yeah, that's true. Every six months. I try to move to Android and I fail and it sucks. Yeah, I really want to do it and I get the phone and I'm like, okay, I'm excited. This is the first time where I installed the beta for Gemini and Gemini is there.
AI stuff right there chat GPT competitor Gemini sucks like six months ago and I'm not like three months ago was horrible. It's got a lot better. No doubt. I mean, it's Google right you're gonna throw some serious resources at this and figure out this problem. They did this update where your you can actually integrate it into and replace the assistant on your phone. Now it much in the way that you can assign to the new Apple iPhone. You can take this new button that's in the corner the action button and assign of the chat GPT. I saw him using this in the green room. We had actually I was
and about is very mg and how coffee caffeine there were a few hallucinations, but it's pretty convincing up until the punchline, but the but the crazy thing is that for the first time I realized that like, I can't move to Android full-time because of the freaking bubbles the green bubbles, but aside from that I will say that it was providing me insights that were actionable relevant and unexpected, which I thought was just fascinating like I'll give an example I was
To head to the airport to catch a flight to come out here and you know with my family with my kids. I want to say goodbye to my girls get into LAX for my house about an hour issue and change you never know. Right and I got a notification it was like, hey we saw on your calendar the fly. We know that with the time you have to leave. This is your check and this is your Carousel and you actually have an extra 30 minutes and I was like, holy shit. That was like all proactive right? And you know, you ask Siri something you're like. Hey, how many points did Steph Curry score last night and like I'm
Sorry, I didn't get that taste like hers. Like here's your results from the web and you're like gee thanks. Okay, I could have Googled that Siri but like Jim and I now is giving all that shit in real time. It's very and I'm like it's on like apple has to really go hard and as obviously they are on they just haven't announced it yet, but it's getting pretty awesome. I'm excited for the future of what this is going to bring also translation and simultaneous translation of her conversation. Android is incredibly impressive. Yeah.
It's going to get better. So this is a true story right now yesterday. I saw my podcast fully translated into Spanish and Japanese it my voice and in my guest voice and then I have another company that is doing the lips perfectly. And so now they are very Supple lips. Yeah. They're the very plump I get the injections. They will be I don't know if that'll just be like pulled out and put on Twitter. They will be released actually in all these
Other languages and I'm imagining you're going to be doing that Terrence. Yeah, it's surprisingly straightforward. We'll all be hitting a global audience in like every product and everything. We do in the next two to three years. Yeah. I mean the sheer volume of content production is going to be so outrageous that think they're going to be a number of secondary and tertiary effects including the half-life of Fame is going to go down dramatically. There's not going to be another Oprah who has command over.
Half of a country with a show like that and the Decay rate is going to be really fast, which I'm looking forward to personally because I don't know there's some psych public thing gets a little tiring ever. Do you think about Jake Paul? And Tyson? I've read some God. Okay. So if we're gonna so Tyson's 57 years old, he's incredibly good shape. Yeah given everything. Did you watch those clips of him? Like fight like punching the he's still gone and Syrian the tight turquoise shirt. Yeah. Yeah. I hope he wears a short 25.
It's so yes, I look I don't want to fight Tyson. I've heard rumors. They're going to require headgear and 18 ounce gloves. That's bullshit. They can't do that gives too much advantage to the young buck with more endurance. I'd say if you're going to fight make it a real boxing that she's someone said Tim you don't have her have to podcast again 200 million dollars step in with Tyson. No. Oh absolutely not you wouldn't take two rounds. You take one punch from a professional fighter and the TBI you're not going to
The count afterwards. No, well, you got your magnets and shit. You'll be fine.
My magnets. Yeah. No II need no more head trauma in my life. I think Isis gonna kick his ass. I'm in my eye, you know, I respect the guy because he went from YouTuber to like legit fighter like no doubt. He would make a very good this serious fighter. Yeah. He's serious fighter I would say if it is to be a credible fight no head gear and regulation size boxing gloves having spent some time doing this kind of stuff. Yeah.
If you make them like the giant Sumo costume protective out towards the watch that though. They can't there's no behold water people watch it. But if you have all those protective mechanisms in place, it discounts the power and it rewards the speed and endurance and that's going to favor the theis going to favor a younger fighter. Tyson's not going to wear headgear, but he is I'm saying just the rumors I've heard is it both of them or both, but that negates the advantage that Tyson.
Has and should have in such a fight. Yeah my opinion. So make it real if you're gonna do it make it a real fight. So let's say let's take a look at what she could do some audience questions, but we didn't set that up and we didn't set it up ahead of time. So I'll hurry. I got one we should touch on since we talked about point and shoot you want to talk about Kevin's deflated balls. That's my line out of here. Yeah, we can thanks to him. I appreciate that. So will he yeah.
I don't you go into this. So one of the things that I find fascinating is these glp-1 Inhibitors that are going around the has ambach and the majority majority cetera because it's going to change everything they're talking about honestly with as much weight loss. It's going to happen over the next decade, you know, the cost of flights will go down because will be less weight to actually these are where they're going with this. It's insane. Yeah, a lot of major retailers budgeting for decreased.
Consumption. Yes, it's crazy. So one of the things that people don't know about this is that these started off not as weight loss drugs. I mean people probably know this but as type 2 diabetes drugs and so they're primarily used for glucose control and one of the things that I've always had an issue with I went to Atia a decade ago, and he tested the idea also great podcast. Yeah. Fantastic T is great. The drive podcast is fantastic. He made me do something called a glucose tolerance test. You drink a big sugary drink and you watch how quickly your body.
Dispose of the glucose unfortunately, mine's really shitty. It takes me a long time to get the glucose out. And so these drugs were always interesting to me from that point of view. Like how can I have better glucose control largely because my dad died of a heart attack, my grandfather died of a stroke that cardiovascular disease is rampant on my father's side. And so there's a 20 this is like data. We ask that you be T earlier though. It's real data. There you go the website there's a 20% reduction in cardiovascular events for people that are on these drugs.
Accounting for the way leaving even taking an account and controlling for the weight loss. And so I tried a long time ago with Tia just because I was curious this was like, you know, six years ago and you definitely lose your beer gut, which is great Drew. I see in the audience. We like our beer in our drinks through the awesome. It does help on that front in the vanity front. But like for me I would wear a Dexcom in my glucose was just like Stables hell, which was amazing and I like the cardio protective benefits of it.
It I didn't want to stand up because you lose muscle mass. Yeah, that was good. So the question yeah, so Atia started talking about this and saying hey, I don't put people on this because you lose muscle mass. So what do you have to do you have to go and and do testosterone has to be clear you lose muscle mass because you're not eating right and protease is people are not consuming enough protein Nor Cal, right? Exactly. So you're not getting enough proteins you lose muscle mass and so you can do testosterone replacement therapy to counter it. It's a whole mess. But if you do test all you've done
Testosterone replacement therapy the post surgery. Yeah, I did the whole cocktail if you never had a little juice on the side. No hang out with Arnold dude. You never had a little smell like we're having omelets and steroids for bread. No I have yeah, I have a lot of thoughts on this but I think that post surgery for certain instances and so on. I think it's indicated. I think people need to be aware of the risks. They're taking and post Psychotherapy and various things that they need to take into account.
Out. Yeah, but will if you do it all so you lose a lot of things down there like your balls shrink. Yeah, they turn into raisinets just as an aside the raisinets. Yeah. So anyway, it's a balance his longevity thing is a really tricky thing. And the thing for me is like I've never want to be someone that like, I don't believe in like living forever. I don't want to do that. I just want to see my kids grow up. I'm an older dad at the end. If I die at several hours, like I still got all the pussy. I said you're an older than I am an older. Yeah. I know. I have some ketchup.
The eyes was that, you know speaking of which your know you wanted to cover it son. No, you're single. Yes. I actually hear some there's a surprisingly some ladies in the audience which is which is amazing meet Tim Ferriss. I'll assign he's signing books and know how's that going do what's it? Like now these days I mean like anyone here who's participating in modern dating? I think would agree that it's pretty fucking bizarre.
So I look there's some amazing people out. There. It is. Also I think depending on your standards one of my friends. I won't name them but he was like you and your standards but if you have reasonable standards, it is like finding a needle in a haystack because you're starting from all the apps are all the humans in the world. So I think you need to have pretty tight criteria. If you're gonna make that remotely tackle a bubble like it's like dating on one hand is very fun. And on the other hand. It's incredibly exhausting. How low do you go just out of curiosity?
Hello, do I go? Yeah, like talking about me. Like I get how that could be taken a few different ways. It's like slow as necessary. Let's just say let's get in. Somebody's a fan. You got one taker. Yeah one take your later. That's quite the scream so loud it not against that. I'm not upset. I'm like your age. Are you
No, you got you going Lily was the 27 30 32. I mean like I would say God. All right, so I would say 28 plus is what I'm looking for. Like I want someone who has a reasonably formed identity and has demonstrated the ability to handle hard things in life and so on and so forth if somebody is still really on the path to establishing in their own minds who they are. I think there's a lot of risk in that I'd because people develop in different directions.
And it's good to see someone who has reached some point of confidence in themselves, and they have a degree of self-awareness and who they are what they like what they don't like. Yeah that takes time. I will say one thing like but I think it also be quite a bit above that. I'm not married to that but I would say the lower back but you also want kids also on kids. So that's a whole hot third rail that I'm not sure you want to touch it gets people very upset. But yeah, it was like there are some biological realities for sure. One of the things I will say that I do really respect.
About you is like had the chance to As A View to bump into a bunch of celebrities over our time in just mingling with folks and when you get to a certain state of notoriety, it's easier to date and one of the things that you've always said to me is like you want someone that is like challenging you intellectually in you've always had these really high standards in all the right ways. Yeah. It's not necessarily like a canvassing Mensa for my next chess partner type of situation. I think I got
I want to look last thing. I want to date me with long hair and glasses that yeah, that's nightmare. Let me jump off a building in the hell and like and it before it gets bad. But what I'm looking for is someone I can admire like there should be mutual admiration. And the reasons for that can be many right but it's like somebody that impresses you that you admire which is very different from respecting right? Like respecting can have a negative connotation or an obligation feel to it. Whereas admiration like
A
force that yeah, you can't do that because other people demand it. It's very organic thing. So I'd certainly look for that. I'd say we're going to get yelled at but yeah, we can push a little bit. No push you got another you guys okay with another five minutes. All
right. All right. We'll go a little bit longer
to shift gears just a little bit just because you mentioned something that has been on my mind a lot. If this might be helpful to anyone lifespan life extension. This is in the water. A lot of people are talking about it a lot of
Pilar obsessing over it and a lot of folks are mostly like Tech males from being frank but a lot of people are interested in not dying. So there is that but there's a lot of bandwidth a lot of money being allocated to thinking about life extension and I recommend we mentioned Peter T earlier outlive. His book talks a lot about health span not just lifespan take a look at that. But on a very different level. I've been thinking a lot about experiential.
Spam. So I think most people in this audience have probably experienced varying degrees of time dilation where maybe you go on an extended hike maybe you take a few days to do X Y and Z maybe it was during covid because of everything that was changing minute to minute where you have four periods of time and increased frame rate. It's like you're normal frame way. I'm making this up was like 24 frames per second. But then you go to like a thousand frames per second and an hour or a day.
Day or a week and feel like months. So I've been thinking a lot about how you can engineer that schedule that in your life. And if you say schedule three or four things that you know produce this time dilation for you if that say just based on the frame rate right kind of expands your year experientially to be an additional three months.
Even if you don't extend your max lifespan, you've extended your max experiential lifespan really significantly. So what's been your strategy for that sir? A lot of miserable Fox want to live forever. I mean, let's be honest. I hate to say it but it's just like, oh, wow, you just want to make this painful Journey as long as possible. Okay, I gots one way to go about it. How do I what? So what are your strategies for that? What is your like we all agree like is you get older like it seems like time is just compressing and going faster and faster. There are a few things and there's a great.
Article from Johns Hopkins University magazine called awestruck, which actually put on my blog because it resonated with me. So clearly I recommend people check that out because I do think ah, and there are assessments of course for ranking your experience of all in different environments, but it's worth thinking about because I do think it correlates to this time dilation. There are few things that hop to mind for me extended time off the grid.
In say a mountainous environment seemed to produce that being in seasonal environments as opposed to in one place. Say you're experiencing an equatorial place or some place like Costa Rica for instance for a lot of people is seems much faster time passes faster than it does in a place with Seasons. As one example. Another would be the last few months. I was in the mountains and I was skiing for a half of each day.
You're changing locations a lot and people have probably experienced this where if you're at South by Southwest and you change locations, you go to 10 different places and one day even if that's just eight hours. It feels longer than if you're sitting at your kitchen table pecking away at email for that equivalent period of time the experience of time is different so changing locations. That's something you can very easily plan into your life. There are certain states. Of course. I mean, I'm not going to recommend this it is like I mentioned contrary
to get it for a lot of people but certain psychedelic experiences certainly can produce this but it's not exclusive to that at all. If you've been for instance places that have a pervasive feeling of vastness. For instance Montana you go there or Alaska, it just feels bigger like the sky and everything seems vaster and that has an effect on your sensory experience that changes I think for me at least my perception of time.
It's a non verbal stuff interacting with animals. That's a whole separate conversation. I'm thinking of those Ace Ventura Pet Detective. It's like the birds landing on his arms. Yeah my experience of the Wolves certainly so there are ways that you can engineer this but I think that the most practical way to go about it is to look back at the last two years identify where you experience these Peak moments of awe and try to figure out what the characteristics are the shared characteristics. I think this is a major unlock because
frankly humans been trying to figure out the code of immortality and the found of Youth forever. It hasn't worked yet. I hate to be the one to deliver the news and I'm I don't think we're going to figure it out and the next 50 years maybe people say it's pessimistic. I think I would rather be pleasantly surprised when it works then to bank on it and have it not work. So in the meantime, there are some really straightforward things. You can do. Let me throw out one last little hack before we go that is related to this. Have you had
Gupta on your show yet. No, he's awesome. He's a fantastic just human and he wrote this book recently. It's about the wisdom of Dharma and ancient techniques typing back to India and how we can incorporate them into Modern Life and one of the things that he did some research on was these people that just have this energy that is every day. They just keep going they just have this Unbound energy and one of the people that is like, this is Martha Stewart in her 80s, so
People say that Martha Stewart now in her 80s has more energy than she did when she was younger and they went back and they asked her, you know, what's the secret here? How did you do this and it's breaks in the day and it's like don't do back to back meetings, but taking 10 minutes to get outside to go for that walk for the day to break it up. And actually you will distress yourself and also the day will seem Fuller and longer but the interesting hack was that
If you ever say hey, we're going to do meeting tonight. We're gonna jump on a call and you know, I'm going to intimidate early. It's gonna be from one to 150 instead of from 1 to 2. It never ends that way right you always go to 2:00. What he does. Is he starts his meetings 10 minutes late. So the meeting starts at 10 minutes after the hour, that's why I always gets that break. I thought it was brilliant and it's a he's it's another fantastic book to read. Yeah. So to underscore that I would say if you feel rushed your time is going to feel
Rest right seems kind of self-evident but it's taken me a lifetime to think of this. So there are a bunch of things you can do right? Like that's part of the reason honestly, I don't think there's any magic to say Transcendental Meditation but taking 20 minutes as a break twice a day. I do the way everyday it what is that force you to do it forces you to realize that if I stopped for 20 minutes twice a day, my world does not completely fall apart and you end up feeling less rushed and I think it's that cumulative in Forestry.
Sation as much as the Mantra and all this other stuff that is so helpful folks. So helpful for me at the very least anything else that we should probably vacates. Yeah.
She's that said we should plug the way
the our friend Henry's meditation app. That's it's a great 10 minutes a day to spend and he's got a great meditation app. That Henry is super legit. He's been on my podcast twice. He's been in your pockets Henry shook Lin Shu km am yeah also has some good way to take 10 minutes and have a break for sure.
I guess that's it.
It yeah. Thank you everyone. Thanks everybody.
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For Purity and freshness you want proof. You can visit their website check it out where they can provide certificates of analysis for every one of their products. So learn more if you've been wondering what type of Omega-3 you should take which ones are properly vetted and tested and have quality assured check out Nordic Naturals. Go to Nordic.com Tim and discover why Nordic Naturals is the number one selling omega-3 brand in the US and while you're there use promo code Tim for 20% off of your
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