Welcome to the huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science based tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and Ophthalmology at Stanford school of medicine.
Today is an ask me, anything
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hear the first 20 minutes of today's episode and determine whether or not becoming a premium subscriber is for you. So, without further Ado, let's get to answering your questions. The first question is about nature, in particular about the scientifically supported benefits of getting Outdoors into nature. The person asks about the role of sunlight, the role of calming sounds the role of observing wildlife
Of observing green colors and quote other stuff.
And in fact, I'm glad that they asked about other stuff because I get the question about the scientifically supported benefits of
nature, a lot. I often also get the question about grounding, for those of you that aren't familiar with what
grounding is, grounding is a
practice of putting your feet on the earth directly with bare feet,
oftentimes into soil, or on a lawn and it's a question that I seem to get more and more. In fact, every week for quite a long
Long while now on social media or elsewhere, somebody
asks me about the scientific support for this practice of grounding. So
obviously there's a lot of interest in what the scientific research says about getting into nature
and putting one's feet on the ground AKA grounding and so on.
Okay, so if I'm going to answer this
question, I first have to be very direct with you.
There is excellent. Meaning dozens if not hundreds of quality peer reviewed studies,
which
The
value of getting sunlight, in one's eyes, in particular, early in the day to set their circadian rhythm. This is something I've talked about extensively on the huberman Lab podcast. And as a guest on
other podcasts, it's one of the first and frankly, most important items on the toolkit for Sleep which is a zero cost
tool kit that you can access by going to huberman lab.com, going to the menu, going to newsletter. You can see it as a PDF there. You don't have to sign up for the newsletter. You can
just access that toolkit for sleep and you'll notice that very close to the top of that list. If not top of that list is to
get some light in your eyes, early in the day, you don't have to see The Sun Cross The Horizon, you can that's great. But if you wake up after the sun, has already risen. Go outside face. The sun blink as necessary to protect your eyes, but get some
sunlight into your eyes every single day. Or as often as you possibly can, especially on overcast days. Okay?
That's an absolutely unequivocally. Science supported tool that will increase daytime, mood, focus and alertness, and will improve your nighttime sleep viewing mornings.
Light also has profoundly positive effects on
metabolism. Those effects on metabolism could be the
direct effect of viewing sunlight, or more likely, they are the indirect consequence of getting better sleep at night. So getting sunlight in your eyes early in the day and ideally in the evening or late
afternoon before the sun sets
is a very well supported
protocol. That we know is beneficial for numerous aspects of mental health, physical, health, and performance, and of course, sunlight and getting sunlight in one's eyes does require
That you get outside, you
simply will not derive the same benefits from viewing sunlight if you try and do
it through a window or windshield. Or if you look at a picture of a son on a screen, forget it. You are not going to set your circadian rhythm. You are not going to derive, all the positive effects of sunlight by trying, to get it from screens, or from looking at pictures of sons or something of that sort.
Now, if you are somebody that for whatever reason, seasonality, where you live on the planet work, schedule, Etc, who cannot get some light in your eyes.
Early in the day on a consistent basis? Well, then you might consider purchasing a so-called sad lamp, which is for seasonal, affective
disorder, which is very bright light. You can look at in the morning for usually about 5 to 10 minutes, people will put it on their counter while they make their morning coffee, eat their breakfast. And that is
also been shown to improve mood, focus and
alertness and set one circadian rhythm,
but it is not nearly as
effective as getting sunlight in your eyes. Now, why am I talking about this practice that I've already talked about extensively on numerous podcast before? Well, because the question is
about nature.
ER, and sunlight is a key
feature of our natural environment, but the person is also asking about other features of nature seeing green colors or blue colors are running streams for that matter.
Well, here, too. We can ask. What does the scientific data really
say about things? Like going near a waterfall or a
running stream or being near an
ocean. And actually,
this is quite interesting, there is actually a peer-reviewed literature
on - ionisation as it's called,
which is a pattern of ionization that's present close to
Bodies of water and particular types
of bodies of water, such as waterfalls running streams Etc. There's actually a laboratory at Columbia University School
of Medicine that has published fairly extensively on the health benefits of - ionisation as it relates to setting
circadian rhythm. And some other aspects of mental and physical health. I intend to host the head of that laboratory on the huberman Lab podcast and they're not too distant
future. For now, we can safely say this. There does seem to be some positive health benefits to placing
Own self near bodies of water, in particular, moving
bodies of water. And of
course, this is always the case when there's a discovery about how the natural world can impact Health.
There have been some technologies developed to create negative patterns of ionization within a home environment. But as with viewing sunlight exposure and comparing it to say, Sad lamps the negative ionization, machines that one can purchase and put in their home. Environment have been shown in a few studies to produce some positive health benefits but those paws
Effects in no way. Reach
the level of positive effects that have been demonstrated in studies where people are actually spending a dedicated period of time Outdoors near a moving body of
water. So in thinking about nature, natural, environments, there, strong evidence for getting
sunlight. In one's eyes,
there is some evidence for being near
moving bodies of water. Perhaps again, I really want to highlight perhaps because of - ionisation created by those moving bodies of water.
There is far less evidence for sunlight.
Laters or - ionisation
machines used indoors
and then the Oscar of this question. Also quite correctly asked about things like calming sounds watching,
Wildlife, green colors, Etc. And
herein lies a really important point for everyone to digest. While of course, answering a
question about the natural world or about health requires that we first pose a hypothesis for those of you that aren't familiar with a hypothesis, is a hypothesis is
a stated prediction, so it's not a question.
Question would be something like is getting out into nature? Good for our health, a scientific hypothesis is where one actually takes a
stance. For instance you could take the stance and make the hypothesis
that getting out into nature for 30 minutes per day, 3 days per week, improves
mood and nighttime sleep, okay? So that's a hypothesis
that then one would go on to design an experiment to test, and then evaluate the data from
that experiment. And compare it to the hypothesis, either
validating or
Or negating
that hypothesis. That's essentially how science is done. There's a lot
more to it but that's
essentially the scientific method.
And while, of course, the scientific method is a fabulously powerful tool for some questions, it is a less potent tool and the question of is getting out into nature helpful for enhancing our mental and physical health is the sort of question that while. Ideally, you could design a really well controlled study to address. It's actually quite difficult.
Galt to design such a study. And here's why in order to perform a study, that's very well controlled, meaning where you can isolate individual variables, like sunlight, like the sorts of color
contrast that one sees in a natural scene outdoors in a forest or near a river
in order to address whether or not the calming sounds or the presence of squirrels running through your environment or the relevant factors. It becomes incredibly difficult to try and isolate individual variables. Meaning as soon as you bring people into the laboratory, yes you
have more control over
Which variables as they're called, you present them right by bringing them into a room. That essentially has no art on the walls and then having them look at a picture of a saint, or looking at sunlight or listening to soothing sounds, or looking at a picture of a
forest, of course, you're controlling the individual
variables.
However, there is a sort of,
Gestalt meaning a collective picture
of being in nature that brings together. Lots of different elements, write the element of surprise. For instance, the other day, I was out for a Sunday hike and that morning I saw a squirrel running across
Path. And it was interesting because the squirrel had a pine cone in
its mouth, it had been chewed down to the cob and the squirrel is probably only about 7 or 8 inches long.
And the pine cone was probably about 9 or 10
inches long, the Kaaba the of the pine cone that is and
the interesting thing is that the squirrel was carrying it long ways from the tip of the, of the cob. And so I delighted in the fact that this little squirrel was working so hard to carry this object through the woods and this object was literally longer than its
own body length and it looks so dedicated. And it's running across the, you know, the
Path in order to do whatever it would with that Pinecone cob.
So something like that off, obviously stuck in my memory, it delighted me. And at the very same time, there were a number of other things happening, besides the presence of
that novel Wildlife Experience. There was the sound of a stream, there's the sunlight, there's the color contrast everywhere, I'm breathing fresh air because I was far away from any cars or any
civilization in fact. And so here's what we know, there are dozens if not hundreds of studies that show that if people get out of do,
Into nature is could be Parks, this could be near a
stream, this could be an ocean, any number of different natural environments and if they do that for anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes three to seven days per week indeed there are demonstrated significant reductions in things like
blood pressure resting, heart rate, improvements in sleep, improvements in
mood and so I think we can very reliably say that,
yes, we're perhaps even absolutely. Yes,
getting outside into nature can enhance.
At
various aspects of mental health, physical health, and thereby performance in different aspects of life.
However, when talking about the benefits of getting into nature, we are talking about hundreds, if not thousands of variables, some of which we are aware
of such as the presence of wildlife or sunlight, or color contrast.
And then, of course, there are going to be dozens if not, hundreds, maybe even thousands of other variables, that were not even aware of
perhaps it's - ionisation. Most people aren't measuring the
Ization of the air when they go out into nature. But perhaps
it's also the presence of certain smells from the soils that are, you know, being
broken down and then they're
changing the oxygenation state of the air around you, the plants, Etc, again, so many variables that frankly, to try and isolate. Any one of those variables in the laboratory seems not just artificial but I think that it actually would just lead to a diminished sense of just
how valuable nature is. So while of course, the huberman Lab podcast is a
Podcast where we always Center on science and science related tools. Meaning protocols that are grounded in quality peer-reviewed studies that have been subjected to control conditions where some people are getting say the drug treatment or taking the supplement or doing a particular behavioral practice. And other people are not or doing some variant of those and
dose-response curves all of that stuff when it comes to the question of whether or not it's valuable to get out into nature. I think it's a very straightforward. Yes, absolutely. Yes. Get out into nature as
Often as you can and safely can of course I realize some of this is weather permitting. People live in different areas, some people are in cities, some people are desert, some people are
near the ocean but getting out into Nature
has been shown over and over again to have numerous positive health effects.
And yet unless we're talking about sunlight exposure and isolating the variable of setting one circadian rhythm
by viewing sunlight early. In the day, all of the other features
of getting out into nature
things like
Forest bathing. This is
A term coined from some frankly pretty nice studies that were done in Japan which people place themselves into forests like environments for a certain period of time. There were control groups where people were
not placed into those environments in the people that did this so-called Forest
bathing experience, enhanced mental and physical health.
That brought on a practice of people who could
not get out of doors into forests bringing plants into their home
environment. Which I think all of us would agree. Look nice. They often will add
Pleasant odors to the air and
Perhaps they do actually shift our mental and physical health and significant ways. I suppose. It depends on how much you like, plants how much you pay attention to them? And of course, how many plants there are. But and I
think this is a really important but to emphasize, While most all questions about tools and
protocols for enhancing Health, immediately lead
me to say, ah, this
study or that study or
yes, there's evidence or no, there isn't evidence. When it comes to questions about nature and grounding in particular, I take the stance that
This is a unique instance where we know there are just so many benefits of getting out into nature that trying to isolate any one of those variables, in a quality rigorous way within the laboratory, almost seems too artificial to
really justify the conclusions that
arrive. Now, I'm sure there are some of you out
there who are aware, and if you're not, I'll tell you, there are studies that have explored this practice of so-called grounding. They've had people come into the laboratory and place their feet on soil, that is contained within a box.
Or there are other studies where they actually have people go out of doors and place their feet onto the grass or the
ground. And there are a bunch of theories as to how grounding could improve one's mental and
physical health that aren't just about getting outside. So the theories go that this has to do with the
exchange of electrons with the earth and the earth's surface. In particular, there's been the argument
made that shoes and particular shoes that have rubber soles May
block some of this electron exchange with the surface of the
Earth have been theories about the tactile. That is the touch.
Sensation with the
Earth being important. Not a lot of science
published in. Let's just say blue-ribbon journals
which is not to diminish. Some of the journals that these have been published in but just to say that again, there are so many variables associated with
a practice such as grounding that I'll simply say. Yes, please do get out of doors into nature. I try every Sunday to do my zone to cardio by rucking or jogging or hiking often with other people. If I'm trying to be social with family or others,
but the point is getting out
of
Doors has Myriad positive effects on mental, health, and physical health. And of course, when you're moving out of doors, you're also getting that zone to cardio or other forms of physical benefit, by elevating your heart rate or perhaps you could even do your resistance training out of doors on other days. Now, I also tried to get out of doors other days of the week. But oftentimes, I'm by way of weather, or by way of other commitments forced to be indoors on planes here at the podcast Studio. We're certainly, I'm indoors but I tried and get out of
doors at least a few minutes each
day for a morning stroll.
Roll looking at sunlight at cetera. So
the long and short of this is, yes, there's some evidence for grounding. Is it super strong evidence? No, it's not. We
don't really know what it is about. Placing one's feet onto the earth that is producing the positive effects that were observed in those studies and
those studies made some reasonable attempt to isolate the variables and figure out whether or not it was
ion exchange with the Earth or the tactile meaning, the touch sensation of having one's feet on the ground. Frankly, I don't think there's enough quality science to really draw any firm conclusions about
However, if you like the idea of
grounding by all means, do it. In fact, if it feels good to you, I recommend getting your morning sunlight out of
doors with your bare feet on the ground. Or if you're like me, you know, you put on your shoes and you take a walk most
days, although, I've tried this practice of grounding and it feels pretty good ending.
It feels nice to have my feet on the earth. Provided I'm on clean soil, or clean Lon. Definitely don't do this at the dog park. Hookworm is a real thing, by the way, folks. So pay attention of the sorts of
surfaces that you're putting your feet on two.
But the question about whether or not
nature is valuable for our mental and physical, health is an easy one, it's an absolute, yes,
but isolating, the particular variables about nature that are
most beneficial. Well, that's a
much tougher question and it's one that frankly the
scientific method is not. And to be honest, I don't think ever
will be in a position to isolate and really nail down specifically because as soon as you get specific about that question, you start to diminish
the value of the study itself. So
the long and short,
This is get out into nature
as often as you safely can if you can exercise Out of Doors, even better. If you want to make it
social great. If you don't want to make it social fine, it's your life. It's up to you. But there certainly is value in getting out into nature. It's also just beautiful from a visual perspective from an auditory perspective. And I myself try and take at least a few trips each year.
None of these are particularly expensive trips where I try and
get out hiking camping. The weekly walks in
nature are a you know an
absolute must for me.
If I miss one because of weather conditions or travel, I
make it a point to try and get into nature more during the following week or whenever
I can. And frankly, I don't have a scientific
explanation for why nature is 0. So beneficial except for the sunlight peace. And perhaps this grounding peace and the - ionisation, peace
and frankly, I don't worry so much about the
lack of variable. Isolating quality peer reviewed studies, that support the benefits of getting out into nature. I
simply like getting out into nature and into different natural
environments, as much as I possibly,
Can because for whatever
reason, imagine those reasons have something to do with serotonin, dopamine hormones, oxytocin probably a bunch of different things that are rooted in how our nervous system evolved in natural environments. Well,
it just feels really good.
Thank you for joining for the
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